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Prison Sentence Reform

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On 6/9/2019 at 5:57 PM, padpilot said:

I make the suggestion of specifically targeting members of faction gangs and allocate then a higher prison time. This would be RP by "gangs damaging the community and disrupting order within Los Santos"

There should be a legal draw back to being in a gang. Yes you get more protection on the streets, more back up and such but the law doesn't appreciate your gang activities and thus gives a harder sentence". 

Target faction members first with newer systems and use then as a testing for the changes . 

Just my input. 

That's also an interesting idea. 

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The concept of going to prison/Jail is that it should serve as a detterent or opportunity to become reformed, and currently in my oppinion the criminal activity in the server is not deterred by the current jail times nor is there incentive to reform either. By removing criminals from the streets with longer scentences, it should not only make the criminals change their modus operandi, but it would also improve the quality of life for civillian RPrs, as there would be less criminals readily roaming the streets to rob them in the first place. Being a criminal is a choice. No one is forcing you to rob people or property, and no one is telling you that you have to engage in the arms race of illegal weaponry either. If you choose to engage in it then you should face the consequences of meaniningful prison times when you are caught. In my oppinion the excuse of 'but prison RP is boring' doesnt wash. there is a simple way of avoiding it and that is not to commit crimes in the first place. This premise forms the basics of society, it serves to protect the civilian population first and foremost from mass criminality rather than feed the never ending cycle of repeat offences en masse. My legal job is sometimes boring, other times its extremely fun and a rewarding experience, just like in real life, but i don't avoid working due to the boring parts, I accept its a normal part of the ebb and flow of life, that basis should be no different for criminal RP too. As i said before, if you arent prepared to be incarcerated for 6-8 hours, then the option is there for you to not commit the crimes, no one is forcing you to do it. If you've found that your previous record means you can't get a legal job any longer because others have a clean record compared to your own, then you have welfare, it might suck, but thats what happenes when you are a detriment to a law obiding society.

 

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40 minutes ago, CrowCargo said:

The concept of going to prison/Jail is that it should serve as a detterent or opportunity to become reformed, and currently in my oppinion the criminal activity in the server is not deterred by the current jail times nor is there incentive to reform either. By removing criminals from the streets with longer sentences, it should not only make the criminals change their modus operandi, but it would also improve the quality of life for civillian RPrs, as there would be less criminals readily roaming the streets to rob them in the first place. Being a criminal is a choice. No one is forcing you to rob people or property, and no one is telling you that you have to engage in the arms race of illegal weaponry either. If you choose to engage in it then you should face the consequences of meaniningful prison times when you are caught. In my oppinion the excuse of 'but prison RP is boring' doesnt wash. there is a simple way of avoiding it and that is not to commit crimes in the first place. This premise forms the basics of society, it serves to protect the civilian population first and foremost from mass criminality rather than feed the never ending cycle of repeat offences en masse. My legal job is sometimes boring, other times its extremely fun and a rewarding experience, just like in real life, but i don't avoid working due to the boring parts, I accept its a normal part of the ebb and flow of life, that basis should be no different for criminal RP too. As i said before, if you arent prepared to be incarcerated for 6-8 hours, then the option is there for you to not commit the crimes, no one is forcing you to do it. If you've found that your previous record means you can't get a legal job any longer because others have a clean record compared to your own, then you have welfare, it might suck, but thats what happenes when you are a detriment to a law obiding society.

 

You suggest meaningful RP. I think you would be surprised how unfulfilling a world with no or very little threat would be. Citizens RP is increased with the chances of theft at any time, and its the same for the criminals, they both need each other. What you suggest is 6-8 hours worth of prison time. This is almost an entire days work IRL. Logistically and to keep the game entertaining I believe this is just an unrealistic amount of time to ask someone to stay in prison. You highlight problems why simply increasing prison times is not enough, I ask you if everyone is in prison for up to 8 hours, who are creating RP opportunities on the streets. By placing so many into a confined, NON-RP driven environment you would actually be damaging the server IMO, the goal is to hand out punishments that fit the crime whilst allowing the player to return to active RP out of prison as soon as possible. A citizen on the street can create more RP than when in prison. Also, imagine, you work all week, you want to play, but you waste your entire Saturday AFK on GTA 5 RP, I mean, it's just not realistic or healthy for that matter. 

 

IMO you miss the point with civilian RP, why can't civilians Dand together and 1. Riot for more police to improve things 2. take action themselves 3. employ security firms (there are people trying to get these security firms off the ground right now because of the gangs, what you suggest would remove their need to do so) 4. civilians could at least start to form unions and coalitions of small independent mining jobs and operations, (just have a small crew, one on foundry, one on the mine, every time someone leaves the  mine, they radio the description of the vehicle to those at the foundry, this provides a clue as to who should be turning up at the foundry or not, those that didn't leave the mine and yet turn up at foundry ought to be treated with suspicion). The civilian RP opportunities due to increased gang activity are actually heightened and not diminished as you would suggest. Remove the threat of gangs to as higher level as you suggest would certainly remove a lot of the appealing substance the server has which attracts new and returning players. 

Just my thought mate. Good to see a live active thread 🙂 good job guys 🙂 

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@padpilot

I think that's why it's important to find a number that we're more or less all willing to live with. I believe I said in my original post that PD needs criminals, it wouldn't be in our interests for crime to stop altogether but I do think criminals are far too brazen and open about their activities in this server. This is in part because they know even if they get caught, the most they'll do is two hours or 90 minutes with VIP. So I think we all know the number isn't 2

That being said, we start fucking people with 6-8 hour sentences and it'll impact criminal roleplay too much and also cause more PD v. Criminal drama which ideally we're looking to avoid. Based on the assumption that your average criminal plays 3 hours a day, I think 5 hours is the magic number for this server. That's enough time to make a prison break worth it, enough time to get some prison RP between DOC/Prisoners and also, too much to spend it all AFK but not so much you're spending 2-3 days of your week sitting in the slammer.

I feel like my suggestion doesn't kill crime off but there is also the penalty there for those that constantly break the law or do the high level stuff.

Oh and as an edit, criminals don't need overblown lawyer/court shit. It's not gunna get done right, criminals just have to feel cops are accountable for their arrests and an independent panel would achieve that IMO for the cases where it's most impactful.

Edited by GOAT

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-0 Prison RP sucks and increasing the amount of people stuck in the same RP black-hole doesn't make it better. I HIGHLY support increasing prison times, but only if it can be served while on another character or while offline. I would support a 4 hour prison time with jobs that give time off, but other than that you would just bore your playerbase to death in my opinion. Prison RP sounds good in theory, but it would get boring very very fast just staring at the walls.  

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9 hours ago, GOAT said:

@padpilot

I think that's why it's important to find a number that we're more or less all willing to live with. I believe I said in my original post that PD needs criminals, it wouldn't be in our interests for crime to stop altogether but I do think criminals are far too brazen and open about their activities in this server. This is in part because they know even if they get caught, the most they'll do is two hours or 90 minutes with VIP. So I think we all know the number isn't 2

That being said, we start fucking people with 6-8 hour sentences and it'll impact criminal roleplay too much and also cause more PD v. Criminal drama which ideally we're looking to avoid. Based on the assumption that your average criminal plays 3 hours a day, I think 5 hours is the magic number for this server. That's enough time to make a prison break worth it, enough time to get some prison RP between DOC/Prisoners and also, too much to spend it all AFK but not so much you're spending 2-3 days of your week sitting in the slammer.

I feel like my suggestion doesn't kill crime off but there is also the penalty there for those that constantly break the law or do the high level stuff.

Oh and as an edit, criminals don't need overblown lawyer/court shit. It's not gunna get done right, criminals just have to feel cops are accountable for their arrests and an independent panel would achieve that IMO for the cases where it's most impactful.

Thank you for your response. You raise some great points and i hope that the system gets the attention it requires and your points are taken on board. Ill have to visit prison a few more time to get a vibe of the place more. For now, though, just a few product placements would make a huge difference. 

1. The addition of mining. Exactly the same as the mines but in a different location. Build a cage in the desert and tele prisoners there from the prison after entering a marker located inside the prison. Here they can work off their speeding fines and other monetary fines (correct balaning and % of payout would need to be discovered) 

                    a) people could come and laugh at the prisoners, people or friends of prisoners could try to sneak them something in, its the guards job to stop them, this gives everyone just more RP. Either the prisoners have ways to entertain themselves and create RP inside prison, or we place prisoners in situatons where they provide rp for other. 

2. A poker table. allow prisoners to play poker and build up an amount of money. However, this is only prison money and may only be used towards prison things (bribing guards, getting free from solitary, increasing the newly implemented mining rate so not paying off fines at decreased rates. 

                   a) So you play poker, earn enough prison points or prison rep points, you are then able to get things into prison. This if this as a credit you earn where you can spend these credits at a Payphone on the prison wall which you contact people and get them to smuggle stuff into prison (scripted or RP) either way its more content (These can then be used for escape and roleplay scenarios). 
 

3. Prison jobs, sweeping floors, mopping up, these jobs have a drop percentage for certain items. (just a thought) - these items could be items only obtainable from prson "prison shank" "prison hooch" - some one could buy beer for everyone and everyone could get pissed in a cell togeher 🙂 

**These are not solutions but rather meaningful workarounds until a better system in implemented**

 

Edited by padpilot

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Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

Edited by Reckless311
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11 minutes ago, Reckless311 said:

Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

Honestly, this is probably under the surface a cops and robbers server. I'm not saying that civilian roleplay isn't important, because all roleplay is important but civilian roleplay is always going to be crushed underneath the heel of criminal roleplay. Most people here are criminals (whether in a gang or not) or cops so I suppose naturally you cater to those two groups with how you balance things. 

I hope that a suggestion like this might give you at least a little rest when doing your roleplay Reckless, as people hopefully wouldn't bother as much with innocent civilians when they know they don't have as much on them as the other factions would for example and it's not worth getting caught for a sum so small.

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8 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Honestly, this is probably under the surface a cops and robbers server. I'm not saying that civilian roleplay isn't important, because all roleplay is important but civilian roleplay is always going to be crushed underneath the heel of criminal roleplay. Most people here are criminals (whether in a gang or not) or cops so I suppose naturally you cater to those two groups with how you balance things. 

I hope that a suggestion like this might give you at least a little rest when doing your roleplay Reckless, as people hopefully wouldn't bother as much with innocent civilians when they know they don't have as much on them as the other factions would for example and it's not worth getting caught for a sum so small.

I've learned to carry no money and no items on me.  Plus to waste as much time as possible of the criminals while staying compliant and within the rules. It's all about the rp so a 15 minute robbery for nothing should be good.  This is a cops and robbers server, it isn't even hidden under the surface.

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3 hours ago, Reckless311 said:

Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

valuing your freedom  <----- 100% this

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+1 I've spoken to a lot of people on both sides of the fence, everyone agree's that the time should be increased, I do believe there needs to be stricter rules set in place for DOC to start RPing with prisoners, and also being something for prisoners to do while serving there time.

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5 hours ago, MrWonanother said:

+1 I've spoken to a lot of people on both sides of the fence, everyone agree's that the time should be increased, I do believe there needs to be stricter rules set in place for DOC to start RPing with prisoners, and also being something for prisoners to do while serving there time.

Again as somebody who works at the DOC we RP as much as we can... but its pretty hard to do it while an injured inmate is swinging their fists at you and PD can't take them out of the prison and 90% of them just want out and dont respond to RP despite our only method of RP being props and imagination land.

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