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ID 16 & ID 14 (5.3 Deathmatch)

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Player(s) being reported: ID 16 & ID 14
Date of interaction reported: 14-02-2019
Unix time stamp from HUD: 79 | 1550103864

Your characters name: John Martinez

Other player(s) involved: Leron_Davis, ID's: 30, 89, 36, 54, 143, 51, 109.

Specific rule(s) broken:

" 5.3.1. Deathmatch is the act of killing or hurting another player or damaging their property intentionally without
having a valid in-character reason to do that. Breaking this rule repeatedly will end in a permanent ban. "

How did the player break the rule(s)? Killed me for none or at least poor reason.

Explanation of how they broke the rule(s) here.: I heard shootout and I came up on the scene, as soon as I left my cruiser, I saw everyone just running away. Then I saw ID's: 89 & 36 laying on the ground as they were injured. They told me that Leron Davis and his mate shot them so I cuffed both of them. After RP'ing the CCTV footage we found out that injured guys were robbing the store. A minute later two vehicles approached the scene, stepped out and told me to put my hands up and as soon as they said that, ID's: 16 and 14 started shooting at me without giving me any time to respond to their demands.

Evidence of rule breach: 

 

 

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Hello, thank you for your report and I am ID 68 ( you mistaken on your report and said 16 )

Lemme try and to explain everything clearly what happened. Me ID68, and Juvante ID36, and Doug we were robbing stores as casual. Through the window I seen that some guy came with caravan, and his friend stole Doug's comet, I got out and pulled a gun on them with Juvante and Doug, they started shooting and this is where Doug i guess got injured ( I have no video of the robbing stores but I will try to get them from Juvante ) But thats not the main point about this report. No idea what happened to the Caravan as they stopped shooting, Cop martinez arrived and pulled gun on ME and told me to put my hands UP, as a bait as I knew Juvante has a shotgun and he will attempt to shoot the cop down. As I managed to put my hands down it was too late and Juvante got injured my only option was to dip and leave. I took his comet and left, called for backup and came back with VICE members, and this is the part where I got the video: 

As you can see, even tho I had a KoS on the officer I still asked him to put his hands up, the officer didn't respond, or didn't even attempt to write /handsup ( It would off appeared as TYPING, even if you got injured, which it didnt. ) Also I waited atleast 2 seconds, and the first shot wasn't fired from me, but as we know the DESYNC is really bad at the server I didn't want to risk it, and not help my friend shoot you down. Also you mentioned that you rp that you checked cctv you should of find out how many there was, and it was 3 of us, me juvante and doug. Also for you calling the backup, as Doug was downed by the caravan people, he still had a radio on him and he informed me that you called for backup and ofcourse that was common sense that you will. 

Also now talking about KOS I did have a kos on the cup because Juvante was involved, and I knew he would go to JAIL as he had a HEAVY GUN and he got injured. 

 

Also I got a video from Juvante to show how bad the desync was in this situation, and ofcourse in the video you see me, ID68 holding my hands and witnessing everything. 

 

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On my screen Juvante didn't even had his shotgun out and I wasn't the one who downed Juvante, someone by his right downed him. Anyways I came up on the scene and I saw many people over there so instantly I just pointed at anyone and told you guys to put your hands up. Now... your friend ID 14 shot me just because you told him of what happened ? KOS rule states that you have to witness to get a reason, not just been told that cop was pointing a gun at someone.

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16 minutes ago, John Robert said:

On my screen Juvante didn't even had his shotgun out and I wasn't the one who downed Juvante, someone by his right downed him. Anyways I came up on the scene and I saw many people over there so instantly I just pointed at anyone and told you guys to put your hands up. Now... your friend ID 14 shot me just because you told him of what happened ? KOS rule states that you have to witness to get a reason, not just been told that cop was pointing a gun at someone.

The video which I showed where its called 'desync' clearly shows you shooting at Juvante, it does not matter if someone accidentally kills him, it should of been your kill, you been shooting him the most, as video shows that. I witnessed you shooting my friend, and potentialy my friend would go jail, I had to help him. Lets just wait for the staff opinion please.

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2 hours ago, Juvante Mathews said:

Everything that @Max_Bryant said was everything needed to be said I think this report is already over with there is no case in my opinion.

Actually there is.

Hi, I'm the medic who was on scene when the Officer got shot.

I frequent the Report section so I can better understand the rules so that when these issues occur, they can be handled in-game without the necessity for a forum report. Less paperwork for the admins and less marks on someone's admin record is a nice combo, no?

Anyway, if you have KOS, then you have KOS... but when you start making demands, you lose that KOS and you need to give your victim time to respond to your demands before opening fire. You claim you gave him 2 seconds to respond, but it's more like .2 seconds based on the footage provided. Almost immediately after you ordered the Officer to put his hands up, he was getting shot (and the first person to open fire is someone who didn't have KOS on the Officer).

You lose KOS when you start making demands. You failed to provide him with proper time to respond to the demands and instantly opened fire. If you don't accept my reasoning, another report where KOS was lost because of demands can be found here: 

Mind you: in this report, the two who shot the OP didn't have a valid KOS to begin with, but as the staff member explains: you lose KOS when you start giving demands.

 

I would have explained all of this in-game at the time of it happening, but there were too many variables. Firstly, I didn't know if the two shooting him had KOS at the time. I was too far away to hear the demands being made, so from my end, it looked like two people showed up and just started shooting him. It looked like a DM, but again, I didn't know if they had KOS, so I kept my mouth shut and waited to see what became of the situation. I wasn't the victim, so I didn't have the full story. I can't go blabbing about DM and following the rules when I don't know if the KOS was justified, so I didn't try to handle it in-game.

That being said... we're in a bit of a bind here. I've never seen a matter of this nature being handled before with the exception of the report I posted above. Usually when people have KOS, they go and handle their KOS without making demands first. As a result, these kinds of situations are few and far between and it's easy to see why we might lack the knowledge. Because of this, I would like to propose an alternative solution:

I always opt for avoiding punishment and helping people learn instead of earning people a mark on their admin record. It will ultimately be up to @John Robert if he wants to proceed with punishment or not, but I feel like this serves as a good learning opportunity and we can all move forward from this. Better to have the knowledge to avoid making the mistake in the future, than to be punished for being none the wiser.

Edited by Kaizure
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8 hours ago, Max_Bryant said:

The video which I showed where its called 'desync' clearly shows you shooting at Juvante, it does not matter if someone accidentally kills him, it should of been your kill, you been shooting him the most, as video shows that. I witnessed you shooting my friend, and potentialy my friend would go jail, I had to help him. Lets just wait for the staff opinion please.

I wasn't shooting, slow the video down and re-watch it. Anyways as it is a little of a sticky situation, I think this report should be concluded and archived by now. No need to get people in the trouble. Have a nice day. 

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