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Change how NLR works and implement CK support.

By Osborn, in Archive

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MReefer Newbie

MReefer

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22 hours ago, F@therOsborn said:

EDIT: This idea seems better. If you get injured and there's no one around to treat you - You get delivered to the hospital by NPC medical personnel and you'd RPly be critically injured. Perhaps to combat an endless cycle of retaliation e.g. gang vs gang, we could make it a rule to set OOC standards for better realism that your previous beef with a person is no more, and that you must engage in new role-play with them.

What I had in mind was there is no OOC rule that causes beef to squash after you wake up in hospital. If the gang violence between certain people goes on and on, so be it. Someone either has to CK, arrange some way IC to come to some kind of truce. Whether that is a meeting between both gangs/people to discuss the terms of the truce, whatever. OR they make use of a 'PK' system, explained below.

Now the third option and also what they used to do in samp (which is similar to the OOC rule you proposed, but it's IC instead) is a 'PK' system (Player Kill) which is different to a 'CK' (Character Kill). Let's say a gang has someone down on their knees ready to execute them, they call in an admin, mod or even support. The staff member witnesses the execution and if it's RP'd well, then after it's done the staff member initiates a 'PK' command. Now all that does is basically does exactly what the NLR does right now but it's something that the people doing the killing have to request and get approved based on the situation. The PK is a lot softer than a CK in the way that there is no loss of name, items etc. Only a loss of memory for x amount of time leading up to the situation.

In short

CK = Something you can request yourself to start over, but it comes at a price.

PK = Something others request to put on you. Only price being you forget everything up to that moment like the NLR.

Now some might ask 'well what is the difference between a PK and the current NLR'. Well the current NLR is something that happens no matter what, everytime someone respawns. Where as the PK requires more RP to gain approval in order for you to 'kill' someone and wipe their memory clean from that beef. If is doesn't get approved, then there is no memory loss even on respawn, the beef continues & you need to to find a better way to put a PK on that person in future.

I don't know if I made that sound complicated but it's a system that works really well onces the ball is rolling.

Edited by MReefer
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DeanThompson Newbie

DeanThompson

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2 hours ago, Hilbert said:

Tell me how to automate refund requests, I'll wait

Not talking about automating a refund request, I'm talking about automating transfer of assets when you CK.

 

Could duplicate your character with a new stranger ID, force a name change, sell houses or w/e and market value, lock the old character off as dead, and bob is your uncle 😄

Edited by DeanThompson
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Wizzidy Newbie

Wizzidy

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On 2/8/2019 at 5:10 PM, FatherOsborn said:

Hey Epic Gamers,

Something has been bothering me for a while, the "New Life" system. I've been talking with others and I'm kinda bothered with how this system works. I personally feel like we need to change it, and make it so that when you die - you don't start a new life, instead, you get forced into an "RP Coma" and later released at the hospital, forgetting what happened to your character the past x hour(s). Pretty much keep it how it is, but don't keep it as "New Life". 

EDIT: This idea seems better. If you get injured and there's no one around to treat you - You get delivered to the hospital by NPC medical personnel and you'd RPly be critically injured. Perhaps to combat an endless cycle of retaliation e.g. gang vs gang, we could make it a rule to set OOC standards for better realism that your previous beef with a person is no more, and that you must engage in new role-play with them.

It just doesn't make sense to me that you start a new life but still can return to your work, gang, and/or friends and be the same person. 

Instead of starting a new life every time you die, I'd much rather see the implementation of a voluntary CK system. Meaning that death cannot be forced on you unless e.g. you agree to force CK upon joining a gang whatnot. 

Normally, a CK in traditional sense means complete character kill, e.g. hardcore mode on certain games just wipes your character when you die and you need to create a new one, but I don't necessarily feel this is what we should do on here because there's a lot of real hours spent into your character and gaining wealth, and then it doesn't make much sense for all grown-up people to arrive at the airport at a new city with pocket change and not being able to afford anything.

 This should be the effects of a character kill in my own personal opinion:

  • Your name should become disabled, it should not be possible to use this name in the future. Add it to a list of dead names.
  • Your phone should be deleted, number - contacts, and everything.
  • Your inventory should be wiped.
  • Your houses/properties should be automatically sold and the market value given to you.
  • You should be kicked out of your gang/faction and a cooldown of rejoining that specific gang/faction # should be 2 weeks, to allow you to build up your new character's story.
  • All of your saved aliases should be wiped out, everyone should be a stranger to you again.
  • You should be forced to change your name.

 This is how a CK should be done:

  • To avoid the issue of players "accidentally" CKing themselves and then creating a hassle for the staff team in terms of reverting it, I would recommend that the player having to /report and ask for a Moderator+ to witness the CK RP and then using a command on the player which the player then have to accept, e.g.
    - /ck [Receiver] 
    > Window pops up for the player explaining the information of a character kill and its effects. At the bottom of the window, there are two buttons, "Accept" "Decline" 
  • After the CK is accepted, the player is sent to the airport entrance and a new window pops up where they have to enter a new name. And at this point, all effects of the CK has been applied.

Feel free to post feedback/your own suggestions.

 

Surprised I am not totally against this except for a few key flaws. Ill state them here...

House sale: Currently the games idea of a house sale and the actual market value are different.... this wouldnt work, also as you said it wouldnt make sense for all adults to appear in the city with no pocket change, so why would none of them buy a home before coming to the city. It seems like a superfluous thought that is unnecessary.

Name: While I do believe you should get a new name, dead name directory is kinda dumb, I live in a town of like.... 20000 people and there are 7 with the name Thomas Bayne just in the phone book.... Names IRL are not mutually exclusive, you dont get to copyright your name when you die.

Inventory wipe: Again unnecessary... why would I move into a city and get off a plane without as much as a carry-on bag. Maybe removal or weapons because they wouldn't travel?

Lastly and this is a big one....
Lag/Desynch: The number of times I see a person get randomly glitched under a car and die because there are no MD on duty at night and no admins will respond... is unreal... while I wish the system was stable and fair enough to support a forced 30 minute hospital RP with in game caregivers/doctors.... unfortunately weve seen that this system will fail by looking at PD having over 100 people and there being 0 on duty between the hours of 2 am and 6 am for the past 3 nights... MD being empty during late hours, DOC not having enough personnel on off hours...

Aside from these glaring flaws I think a system like this could work. However I think it would just require a lot of support and change in a server that still has huge issues with the activities that are available for RP and the way that things work. Rewriting the system in this time of flux is probably not the best idea... 

Just my thoughts.

 

Edited by Wizzidy
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Alverin Newbie

Alverin

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I'm not sure I completely understand the CK thing. It looks like you're giving the players the option to CK or not? I'm sure there are some players who would accept a CK for some sort of role play sense, but that will be a minority. I figure most people will decline a CK because of the negatives it brings a long with it unless you force them into some CK contract. In which case, it seems weird to have the CK thing be there at all.

My personal suggestion is to just make death a good bit more costly. One thing that needs to be reworked on the server is the economy because you've got a decent amount of money sinks but they're positioned in ways where you feel like you're not moving anywhere (Oh I bought a new outfit for the 50th time because my old one was glitching out). One money sink that I think could provide a great boon to the "seriousness" or rather the dramatization and meta of the server would be costly death. This would make it so that dying was and should be seriously avoided by all parties. It's also sort of a buff to criminals which they've been wanting since getting sentenced to several hours in prison each.

I feel like as a criminal you should be allowed to really "put the screws" to someone if you want/need to. Part of that is making people "pay". With the crime system it's a risk/reward. If you want to have seriously impactful situations come up between players that they can tell stories about in the future, you need to set up a "nuclear" option for everyone involved. Something that's more real than getting killed and respawning.

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James_McNulty Newbie

James_McNulty

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No comment on New Life Rule, however the fact that not even Official Factions have the option to CK joined characters and members is kinda nuts. That should be included in some sort of agreement when you join any official or unofficial faction. You can be CK'ed by that faction. The fact that suicide is the only CK method is kind of limiting and really restricts possible roleplay possibilities for peoples characters to come to an end.  I remember years ago in SAMP on a very heavy RP server I was a Prospect with the " White Knights MC ", and there was six other prospects. By the time two months went by four of the six Prospects were CK'ed. Some due to violating IC rules and selling drugs/guns to hang arounds, some for bringing too much police attention, some for drunkenly mouthing off to the Sgt. At Arms. Long story short, Character Killing (CK's) should be a contractual possible checkmark when you join a Faction. 

Edited by James_McNulty
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Wizzidy Newbie

Wizzidy

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8 minutes ago, James_McNulty said:

No comment on New Life Rule, however the fact that not even Official Factions have the option to CK joined characters and members is kinda nuts. That should be included in some sort of agreement when you join any official or unofficial faction. You can be CK'ed by that faction. The fact that suicide is the only CK method is kind of limiting and really restricts possible roleplay possibilities for peoples characters to come to an end.  I remember years ago in SAMP on a very heavy RP server I was a Prospect with the " White Knights MC ", and there was six other prospects. By the time two months went by four of the six Prospects were CK'ed. Some due to violating IC rules and selling drugs/guns to hang arounds, some for bringing too much police attention, some for drunkenly mouthing off to the Sgt. At Arms. Long story short, Character Killing (CK's) should be a contractual possible checkmark when you join a Faction. 

Respectfully disagree. A character storyline is something a person builds over time and expecting people to CK because you think it should be something that is not a choice is the kind of things eclipse frowns on. Everyone has the ability to decide their own story... 

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James_McNulty Newbie

James_McNulty

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16 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

Respectfully disagree. A character storyline is something a person builds over time and expecting people to CK because you think it should be something that is not a choice is the kind of things eclipse frowns on. Everyone has the ability to decide their own story... 

So because the CK is not your choice it's not ok?. In my opinion when you join a faction you are putting your future and your life in their hands. The higher ranks and bosses have control, you don't anymore. Unless you are a high ranking member of course or something. I don't see anything wrong with an official faction having the ability to CK their prospective members. Like for example The Marcello Family, say an associate is breaking mafia code and disrespecting the boss. What is wrong with that being a plausible situation for CK?. To be honest I have never seen a server where the ONLY CK was suicide. The fact that parties cannot even personally agree to CK is also rather odd. If someone in a faction wants to perform a CK on a member, and that member OOC'ly agrees to it..-..who are we to intervene in what THEY want their roleplay to be. Once again , I'm not saying every player has the power to authorize an attempted CK. This would only apply to like the top 1-2 ranks of OFFICIAL and possibly Unofficial factions. This is not a situation of every robbery ending in CK. What I'm referring to and talking about are specific situations within a group of people who are roleplaying. So what happens if a faction member straight up betrays your group and gives away your radio freq, and PK's your highest ranking member in his house and loots your stash for everything. You just go what " Your out of the gang " ?, lmao.  In the context of Organized Crime, and the Factions themselves I don't see anything wrong with CK'ing if both parties agree to it. That's where I stand on that. Also when you get CK'ed it's not like you lose your XP and everything along with it. You legit just change your name and appearance with plastic surgery and create a new story and begin your journey with said new character. It's not the end of the world. And one more time for reiteration. I am ONLY talking about CK's that are agreed to by both parties while in a Official/Unofficial faction. 

Edited by James_McNulty
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Wizzidy Newbie

Wizzidy

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4 minutes ago, James_McNulty said:

So because the CK is not your choice it's not ok?. In my opinion when you join a faction you are putting your future and your life in their hands. The higher ranks and bosses have control, you don't anymore. Unless you are a high ranking member of course or something. I don't see anything wrong with an official faction having the ability to CK their prospective members. Like for example The Marcello Family, say an associate is breaking mafia code and disrespecting the boss. What is wrong with that being a plausible situation for CK?. To be honest I have never seen a server where the ONLY CK was suicide. The fact that parties cannot even personally agree to CK is also rather odd. If someone in a faction wants to perform a CK on a member, and that member OOC'ly agrees to it..-..who are we to intervene in what THEY want their roleplay to be. Once again , I'm not saying every player has the power to authorize an attempted CK. This would only apply to like the top 1-2 ranks of OFFICIAL and possibly Unofficial factions. This is not a situation of every robbery ending in CK. What I'm referring to and talking about are specific situations within a group of people who are roleplaying. So what happens if a faction member straight up betrays your groupand gives away your radio freq, and PK's your highest ranking member in his house and loots your stash for everything. You just go what " Your out of the gang " ?, lmao.  In the context of Organized Crime, and the Factions themselves I don't see anything wrong with CK'ing if both parties agree to it. That's where I stand on that. Also when you get CK'ed it's not like you lose your XP and everything along with it. You legit just change your name and appearance with plastic surgery and create a new story and begin your journey with said new character. It's not the end of the world. And one more time for reiteration. I am ONLY talking about CK's that are agreed to by both parties while in a Official/Unofficial faction. 

Yes, I am saying if CK is not your choice it is not ok. A job is a job, I dont think your police chief can kill you if you are late to work, unnecessary ooc validation exposure. You have also never played on a server with 300+ players all having their own interactions at all times... it cannot be monitored of a level that can justify force CK. There is nothing stopping you from rping a CK with a betrayer gang member, just ooc discuss it with them and stop looking for systems to PG them. In this system we are talking about a lot more than a name change and plastic surgery.... and lastly we are allowed to disagree, that is the beauty of the server.

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James_McNulty Newbie

James_McNulty

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1 hour ago, Wizzidy said:

Yes, I am saying if CK is not your choice it is not ok. A job is a job, I dont think your police chief can kill you if you are late to work, unnecessary ooc validation exposure. You have also never played on a server with 300+ players all having their own interactions at all times... it cannot be monitored of a level that can justify force CK. There is nothing stopping you from rping a CK with a betrayer gang member, just ooc discuss it with them and stop looking for systems to PG them. In this system we are talking about a lot more than a name change and plastic surgery.... and lastly we are allowed to disagree, that is the beauty of the server.

......I figured it would go without saying that CK's would not apply to law enforcement factions. Lol

Quote

There is nothing stopping you from rping a CK with a betrayer gang member, just ooc discuss it with them and stop looking for systems to PG them.

Who said anything about PG?. If you joined a faction and OOC'ly agreed to this potentially happening what is wrong with that?. And what about when both parties agree?. Is it Power Gaming when it's mutual and agreed to?. I don't understand that. And also there IS something stopping me from RP'ing a CK on a gang member. It's legit in the rules. The only form of CK that is allowed is suicide. Meaning I could not even roleplay performing a CK even if myself and the to be CK'ed party mutually agree to it. It's against the server rules. You would legit have to force someone to commit suicide for the CK to be valid with the current rules lol.

Quote

You have also never played on a server with 300+ players all having their own interactions at all times... it cannot be monitored of a level that can justify force CK.

Lmao, I have been RP'ing since 2008 on SAMP. Trust me, I have been on servers with 500-800 players online at a time. Appreciate it if you didn't be so presumptuous and condescending when replying to me. I'm not new to Role Play on the GTA series by any means. 

 

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and lastly we are allowed to disagree, that is the beauty of the server.

Tis' the beauty of both this forum and server as well as my beloved USA 🙂

Here is how I know CK rules work on most servers..I don't see how this is extreme.

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CK needs permission, unless the faction asks you to sign a CK agreement or agree to one on pursuing/roleplaying with the said faction. If a faction or anyone kills you, it's a PK or FPK, that is if you haven't given them permission to CK you.

 Or..

Quote

1. Out-of-Character Character Kills
Regardless of members agreement, IC character kill based on an OOC reasons is forbidden. Exception for OOC CK/PK may be granted under certain circumstances with permission from the Head of Factions.

2. Agreements
Members may only be CK'ed if they have an official written agreement. (e.g. forum post reply, forum PM to faction leader, IG PM to faction leader, etc.) Agreement must be accessible to Head of Factions for review if necessary in terms of disputes.

3. CK agreements on faction shutdown
CK agreements are only valid when the faction is still open and is currently a member of the faction. If a faction shuts down, closed, or ceased to exist, the CK agreements between the faction can no longer be used to perform future CKs.

Regarding the NLR idea here I actually do like it now that I read over it. All that would need to be implemented would be " RK " or Revenge Kill rules, as mentioned already by OP. I really like this NLR change idea, and it could really help improve the roleplay in life or death scenarios greatly.

Edited by James_McNulty
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