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ViktorR

Update Penal code

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Hello,

So after yesterdays accident, when we got pulled over by police by driving a 8 seater car Granger (4 guys were holding on the sides). The situation happened that some guys asked to take picture of us, we agreed and after 1 minute cops showed up, they even asked each other if this kind of thing is legal (driving outside by holding on the sides) and suddenly they decided it was not legal to do so. I asked them were it is written in the Penal code that you can't drive on the sides? Guess what, they didn't had the answer because there is no written thing there about it. So they just made rule in the Penal code by themselves. 

So if in the future there is gonna be lawyers in the server, also it would be good for criminals, you should update and keep updated the Penal code, because in these days, cops ( some of the higher ups) roleplaying like corrupted cops, which is not allowed, by corrupted i mean - creating their own rules and penal codes. In real life police Officers follows the Penal code and the server has one also: Check it here (Penal code 2018). But most of the them doesn't even know them or randomly adds the rules by the context. I don't mean that every single small detail should be written there, but it definitely has to be updated. 

I believe that, especially higher ups, MUST know the Penal code.

 

Edited by ViktorR
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1 hour ago, ViktorR said:

Hello,

So after yesterdays accident, when we got pulled over by police by driving a 8 seater car Granger (4 guys were holding on the sides). The situation happened that some guys asked to take picture of us, we agreed and after 1 minute cops showed up, they even asked each other if this kind of thing is legal (driving outside by holding on the sides) and suddenly they decided it was not legal to do so. I asked them were it is written in the Penal code that you can't drive on the sides? Guess what, they didn't had the answer because there is no written thing there about it. So they just made rule in the Penal code by themselves. 

So if in the future there is gonna be lawyers in the server, also it would be good for criminals, you should update and keep updated the Penal code, because in these days, cops ( some of the higher ups) roleplaying like corrupted cops, which is not allowed, by corrupted i mean - creating their own rules and penal codes. In real life police Officers follows the Penal code and the server has one also: Check it here (Penal code 2018). But most of the them doesn't even know them or randomly adds the rules by the context. I don't mean that every single small detail should be written there, but it definitely has to be updated. 

I believe that, especially higher ups, MUST know the Penal code.

 

-1. Don't over complicate it. 4 dudes holding onto the sides is wreckless. Corrupt cops are allowed with admin permission. 

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2 hours ago, Denni said:

-1. Don't over complicate it. 4 dudes holding onto the sides is wreckless. Corrupt cops are allowed with admin permission. 

I am not only talking about this situation but overall, if we wan't lawyers and etc. Penal code should be updated a bit more in details. Because now you are looking in this situation fully OOC, but look it from IC, when cops discussing between them if it is legal or not and afterwards they decide it is not legal even tho it is not written anywhere so by law you didn't break anything and you can't be arrested for that. (P.S i haven't been arrested). Quick example - in my country there wasn't written in penal code that you can't smoke in public place, cops tried to give me administration punishment and write a ticket for that, but guess what, they didn't do shit, because in penal code there is only written that you can't smoke near the hospitals, school, kindergarten and etc. Only after one year I think they made a new edit to the postal code that you CAN ONLY smoke in marked smoking areas and that you are not allowed to smoke in public. Do you get my idea ? 

Maybe corruption wasn't the best word to chose, but the main thing is that COPS can't add or make new rules by themselves. 

But lets agree on - that cops doesn't show good RP. I am not talking about low ranks, who might joined recently or still learning but I am talking about the upper ranks. They are using lethal weapons when not needed, they are driving in unmarked cars and later doesn't even introduce themselves as cops ( yeah OOC I see their badge number and I know that they are cops because of the blue name tag), by introducing i mean saying their name and badge number. Also 2 cops (not talking about low ranks again) stopping car with 8 guys inside is also poor rp, don't you think? 

My idea is that cops should be punished IC more and the punishment can come by having lawyers or at least letting players defend themselves by using the penal code. 

It is just my opinion and suggestion. Every person has the right to have their opinion. 

Cheers.

Edited by ViktorR

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56 minutes ago, ViktorR said:

I am not only talking about this situation but overall, if we wan't lawyers and etc. Penal code should be updated a bit more in details. Because now you are looking in this situation fully OOC, but look it from IC, when cops discussing between them if it is legal or not and afterwards they decide it is not legal even tho it is not written anywhere so by law you didn't break anything and you can't be arrested for that. (P.S i haven't been arrested). Quick example - in my country there wasn't written in penal code that you can't smoke in public place, cops tried to give me administration punishment and write a ticket for that, but guess what, they didn't do shit, because in penal code there is only written that you can't smoke near the hospitals, school, kindergarten and etc. Only after one year I think they made a new edit to the postal code that you CAN ONLY smoke in marked smoking areas and that you are not allowed to smoke in public. Do you get my idea ? 

Maybe corruption wasn't the best word to chose, but the main thing is that COPS can't add or make new rules by themselves. 

But lets agree on - that cops doesn't show good RP. I am not talking about low ranks, who might joined recently or still learning but I am talking about the upper ranks. They are using lethal weapons when not needed, they are driving in unmarked cars and later doesn't even introduce themselves as cops ( yeah OOC I see their badge number and I know that they are cops because of the blue name tag), by introducing i mean saying their name and badge number. Also 2 cops (not talking about low ranks again) stopping car with 8 guys inside is also poor rp, don't you think? 

My idea is that cops should be punished IC more and the punishment can come by having lawyers or at least letting players defend themselves by using the penal code. 

It is just my opinion and suggestion. Every person has the right to have their opinion. 

Cheers.

You can always IA report them in character using the LSPD website. I do agree on some points though. 

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Vehicles are defined as unroadworthy when they fail to meet Minimum Safety Requirements, Lights, Indicators, Seatbelts (Excluding Motorcycles) Side and Rear View Mirrors, plus they cannot cause damage to road surface. Utility vehicle operators are expected to be conscious about road accessibility and to operate with as little harm to traffic flow by keeping to the right most lane possible, driving within safe speeds, and waving traffic around them in the event they are causing a disturbance. Utility vehicles causing traffic issues may face fines for misuse. Utility Vehicles are defined as Money Transporters, Delivery Services, Waste Transports, Tractors, etc.

The vehicle in this case would be deemed unroadworthy as you are utilizing a 4 seater car to seat 8 people, 4 people outside of the vehicle.  It is indeed in the penal code.

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Just now, Taedolf said:

 

Vehicles are defined as unroadworthy when they fail to meet Minimum Safety Requirements, Lights, Indicators, Seatbelts (Excluding Motorcycles) Side and Rear View Mirrors, plus they cannot cause damage to road surface. Utility vehicle operators are expected to be conscious about road accessibility and to operate with as little harm to traffic flow by keeping to the right most lane possible, driving within safe speeds, and waving traffic around them in the event they are causing a disturbance. Utility vehicles causing traffic issues may face fines for misuse. Utility Vehicles are defined as Money Transporters, Delivery Services, Waste Transports, Tractors, etc.

The vehicle in this case would be deemed unroadworthy as you are utilizing a 4 seater car to seat 8 people, 4 people outside of the vehicle.  It is indeed in the penal code.

Again, i am not talking directly about this situation that happened, this situation only made me thinking that we actually need some upgrade on the penal code and that is all. 

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37 minutes ago, ViktorR said:

Again, i am not talking directly about this situation that happened, this situation only made me thinking that we actually need some upgrade on the penal code and that is all. 

Okay...  Let me try to respond to your main issues here then.

 

In my experience, I haven't seen police "making up rules."  Without the scenario(s) in specific referenced, I can't really respond to that claim well.  I've never witnessed something like that, nor have I done it.  My character IC'ly is the type that would report that type of situation to IA.

Again, I can't really comment on using lethal weapons when not needed as I don't know the situations.  What I will tell you is what generally determines lethal force being used in a few situations. 

#1: During a pursuit.  If the suspects open fire or are wanted for previously violent crimes, we could fire upon them.  If they are actively shooting or a threat to civilians/other officers, we will shoot to kill.  If they are not, we may go for tires.  We will also open fire to disable the vehicle if the pursuit is becoming excessively dangerous and then they move to a non-populated area.  Such calls have to be approved by the ranking on scene.

#2: Responding to a call.  If we're responding to any kind of gang/heavy violence call with a low number of units on scene, safety and fear RP may determine whether or not we wait for them to shoot first.  If you have a gun out and you don't surrender when told to, you're probably being neutralized if it's 2-3 officers vs. 6-7 suspects.  edit: Keep in mind, in these situations where we do shoot first we've usually positively ID'd them as the suspects or are VERY confident.  One situation I'm thinking of in particular was in a drug lab where they had a dude on his knees getting robbed and two others down.  Once we moved in, they scattered to defensive positions instead of surrendering. 2 officers vs. 5 people in this situation w/ more officers about a mile out.

#3: Just about any situation.  If you have shot or directly endangered the life of somebody knowingly and we know you to be armed, we will probably shoot to neutralize unless you are actively surrendering.

 

As for officers introducing themselves..  We display our badges on ourselves for a reason.  Unmarked vehicles still have uniformed police officers inside unless it is a detective unit in plainclothes.  It is not just a nameplate we throw on ourselves.  We are actively displaying our badges.  Officers are required to give you their badge number if you ask for it, iirc, but not their full name or any other information.

 

Finally, for pulling over a vehicle containing 8 people to be non-rp..  How, precisely?  Unless it's a 10-66, utilizing 2 officers for that is perfectly fine.  If they were making an arrest, additional units should be called for safety definitely but that is not poor RP to perform a 10-55 on a vehicle occupied 8x.

Edited by Taedolf

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