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Dylan Ortiz

6.6 Non-roleplay MarcoD admin abusing

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Player(s) being reported: MarcoD
Date of rule breach:11/01/2019
Time of rule breach:03:10AM 08:00+ GMT
Your characters name: Shawn Barnes
Specific rule broken:(6.6 Non-roleplay) Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay.

 

How did the player break the rule?:

so it started out with our leader Jamal going to jail and getting 150 Months we decided to break him out of jail via helicopter as i was a marine pilot for 6 years (my character BIO) , so we had 2 ideas to call a medic and request for a helicopter or to call a police officer and request a helicopter for his freedom the medic was the first to respond so we went with that option, now i drove out the the top end of the map in chance they would send a helicopter out for help as they would IRL if you were far out and away from a city. once we got the helicopter and flew it into jail to free Jamal he was released by an admin and once we left we found out Andrew was in jail still so went back to get him, here is where MarcoD comes into this. so he starts by saying that what we did was NON-Role play and said "so you found a helicopter on the side of the road and stole it and flew it to save someone how is that Role play?"  i then informed him that we planed the robbery of a medic for his helicopter and i was a pilot (my bio) and he says "yeah and i'm a pilot too... that was easy" we keep talking and once i told him is the point of playing a Role play game to Role play who you want to be and i said that i was role playing that i'm a pilot and again his response was " and I'm a God" i do not think MarcoD should be in control of an admin position since he does not understand the simpleness of Role playing a character and thinks the concept is stupid, he said lets think about the realism of you flying into a prison and taking him off we ALL explained that IRL it has happen many of times and then after more talking said "if you show me a video of someone getting out of prison with a helicopter in LA then ill reconsider" i then said to him in america we have the 4th amendment and a police officer told me that "we don't have the 4th amendment here in Los Santos" So why does the video have to be in LA? if we are not Role playing LA, america.  i have 5 videos below of the following helicopter prison escapes in the following country's Canada, France,grease and Australia one of the videos the same man was broken out of 2 different prisons so they would of know his history and was still able to escape with him

now he also said "you need to find another way to break him out instead of this" "there are always other ways to get inside the prison and start a RP situation and create something more realistic"  and i told him "i think the only way we would come out alive is if we used a helicopter if we tried to break into a prison IRL we would not leave it alive" i think this is the most realistic way to break him out of jail there has never been a " walk in and take" of a prison yet i spent 1 minute looking for the videos and found 5 all around the world i'm sure if i spend more time looking i could find a lot more

 

i have attached the whole video below un-edited. i do not believe MarcoD should be in the position he is in i even asked for a second Admins opinion and he ignored me i believe he was abusing his powers as an admin and did not think about how realistic this is and was being power hungry even to the point when he was saying " and i'm a God" was not he was not reasonable at any point and did not understand the idea of a characters BIO or the fact on how REALISTIC this was.

EDIT --- after some more research here is a list of helicopter escapes done there is over 40 on the list INCLUDING america the list also says it is incomplete so there is more then 40 times this has happens and been posted here  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_helicopter_prison_escapes

if you would like the full video of us Role playing and taking the medics keys ask and ill upload it. its another 25 minute odd video so let me know

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dylan Ortiz
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I can get videos of people doing something IRL that would be a rule break on this server such as a stunt jump for example. This does not make it ok. Stealing a helicopter in the manner that was done is Non rp, I tried explaining but got nothing but anger in return.

I decided not to issue any punishments and void the RP.

The youtube videos provided show people who were forced to fly these helicopters because they knew how to, the criminals themselves did not. This would have been more appropriate to force the medic to fly you instead, I would still argue that is non rp anyway because calling a medic to get the heli is unrealistic in the first place and can be considered cop baiting too as Musket stated. Being able to get into a helicopter that you do not know the model of on a mountain and be able to fly it like you’ve done it 100 times before is not realistic, the model of the heli will be different to ones used in the marines and therefore it’s nowhere near simple to simply be able to fly one. You have not been trained IC in any helicopter and your backstory is not enough as your character will have not been in the marines for a while now and therefore will struggle with flying a helicopter regardless. In a busy city in America, simply being able to get a helicopter to you come to you with one simple 911 call and taking it is not realistic and therefore I deem it to be Non rp. I tried to explain things to you and try to make you understand my point of view which some people did at that scene however you were desperate to break someone out of prison and you did not think of the realism point of view of what you did, you were too focused on the ‘play to win’ mentality. There is absolutely no way what you did is acceptable on this RP server and more of something I’d expect to see in GTA online.

You have reported me for Non rp

(6.6 Non-roleplay) Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay.

I have not broken non rp as I was on admin duty so there is no possible way I could have done anything In Character that would unrealistic. Simply voiding an RP situations because it is non rp is not abuse, if you don’t agree with a staff members decision it does not mean that it is abuse. If you disagree and a punishment is placed you make an appeal, I did not even punish you so the correct way to go about it would be to seek clarification on the rule from other staff members. A plyer report will not solve this issue and once again highlights your mentality of ‘play to win’ and your eagerness to prove me wrong in a player report and to seek me punished where the appropriate thing to do would be discuss with me or other staff members via forums or discord etc and get clarification on the rule for future because the rules cannot cover everything and a lot of it is subjective, simply disagreeing with a moderator doesn’t mean anyone is in the right or wrong, it is an opinion an not abuse. I did not benefit from the situation nor was I involved at all ICly so it made no difference to me from that point of view.

Quote

i do not think MarcoD should be in control of an admin position since he does not understand the simpleness of Role playing a character and thinks the concept is stupid.

This is certainly not true and once again shows your attitude and rudeness towards a member of staff. You are in no position to comment on whether I should or should not be a part of the staff team.

 

Quote

 You do not get to suggest or decide punishments given

This is taken from the player report requirements and I believe you are in violation of this by suggesting I should not be part of the admin team.

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Thought I'd level in a little. I need to get a bit more active on the forums anyway. It's just my two cents, I'm not trying to start anything.

 

This prison break was obviously pretty well thought out, and roleplayed well throughout. There was planning, and RP leading to the event, not just simply 'steal a helicopter and bust me out bro'. I admire that.

This situation, if more officers were online (as it would be IRL, and assuming officer staffing for both the prison and PD was short at the time), could have made for a really interesting one. It could be one for Weazel News. Maybe things didn't happen normally for those involved due to the shock, but the original helicopter pilot hopefully would have hit the panic button or called it in, which maybe would have let the prison staff be a little more prepared (again, if they were online). It's always nice to see interesting roleplay scenarios play out, rather than the day-in-day-out norm. Obviously we can't have these sorts of things all the time, but assuming this was a first, or a first in a long while, I think this could have made for a really interesting situation.

Again, however, if there was little active police or prison staff at the time, then this gets a little trickier. You wouldn't get it as easy as that, you'd be swarmed by those in the prison and you'd probably get tailed by a police helicopter. Again, it would be interesting if it played out like this. Perhaps this was just the wrong time to do it, but you would have little idea of the current state of the PD and prison in terms of staffing. It's a shame. 

I noticed Marco saying "try and do something more realistic" towards the end of the video. I agree with this, but I also believe this would have been more realistic had there been more active PD and prison staff at the time, and there may not be admin interjection as the situation would have been a bit more fair for both parties. Would you agree, Marco? 

 

As for Dylan, you could be correct one-hundred and ten percent, but if you start throwing in little remarks, nobody will help you. Unfair? Yes, of course, as a good level of professionalism should be held throughout. But, subconsciously, people are going to start building negative pictures of you if you've given them reasons to. I know you're frustrated, and you didn't comment much at all (I'm just referring to the 'shouldn't be an admin', 'doesn't understand simple roleplay' etc), but you're giving yourself less of a chance by getting that off your chest.

Marco, the sarcasm towards Dylan as he was explaining his situation wasn't called for. Yeah, same problem, you just want to get the little nicks off your chest, but you're building a bad image of yourself in Dylan's head and he's only going to react more sour. It's unproductive. Believe me, I've staffed a lot of places in my time and I know the feeling, some people just seem like idiots off the bat and you just want it sorted (I'm not referring to you, Dylan), but you're representing Eclipse, not yourself. You're not on trial when you attend these situations, you're trying to find the resolution. This isn't meant in a bad way; when you're on active duty as staff, you *are* no-one. You're Eclipse, and you aren't trying to win a personal fight. From a purely logical point of view, the inclusion of personality only further delays the resolution in a lot of cases. It's perfectly fine for Dylan to disagree with you on matters - that's not a server right, it's a worldwide decency. But, we all need to remain professional throughout.

Marco, I will however thank you for only voiding the RP, and not issuing any warnings or punitive action.

 

I'm really sorry this has been as long a read, but hopefully we can all take something from it and simply improve. I'm not trying to attack any party, I would just like to put this to rest and have the parties involved agree with one another. Each has their own points, but there's a lot of other factors that affected this outcome. I don't know Dylan at all, or even Marco for that matter, so believe me when I say I'm not writing this from one side. We can always be better, and this situation can be a great learning point. Best of all, there has been no damaging action taken, and I hope this remains. Maybe we'll get a situation like this again, but it'll be with better timing and better thought-out. Thanks for reading, guys.

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@MusketDeezNuts 6.6.2 An attempt to provoke a police chase, without a realistic reason, also known as “cop baiting” (a realistic reason
would be to divert police units away from an area, where your allies plan to commit a serious crime or are in the
progress of one)..

i understand that would be cop baiting if we were doing it to just gain and helicopter and have a joy ride but when it says (a realistic reason
would be to divert police units away from an area, where your allies plan to commit a serious crime or are in the
progress of one) would it not fall under the category of what we were doing? luring a medic or police officer to gain a helicopter to commit a more serious crime e.g prison break (do note we had about 8 guys waiting for the medic or police to show up all hiding in bushes) 

@Marco Davis first i know you were not in character i was told to list this report with the same details of a player as i originally had listed it without any "rules" broken

second, your quote  "You do not get to suggest or decide punishments given" did i once say take him off the admin list no i simply listed my opinion the same thing you did to deem it non Rp. here is a link basically saying if you can fly a helicopter you can fly any https://www.quora.com/If-you-can-fly-one-helicopter-can-you-fly-any-helicopter

and last when you said "the appropriate thing to do would be discuss with me or other staff members" i asked if we could have another admins opinion and you ignored me 

your quote "This is certainly not true and once again shows your attitude and rudeness towards a member of staff. You are in no position to comment on whether I should or should not be a part of the staff team." you don't think your attitude towards me was rude at all when i was telling you that my character was Role playing a pilot and you said twice "and i'm a pilot too that was easy" and " yeah and i'm a god" because that came across quite rude to me mocking the whole point of the role playing concept 

 

 

and as for the part where you said they held the pilot hostage on the videos not flew them self heres one i found with his Wife who was flying the helicopter after a few lessons.

Vaujour had 28 years to serve for attempted murder and armed robbery; this was his fourth escape attempt. He made his way to the roof by threatening guards with a fake pistol and nectarines painted as grenades. On top of the jail he was picked up by his wife Nadine, who had taken helicopter pilot lessons especially for the escape.[5] They landed at a nearby football pitch and fled in a waiting car.[2] Paris-Match published amateur photos of the escape, which was made into a film starring Béatrice Dalle in 1991.[17]

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I shall lock it and be pending @BallinByNature as the report involves a staff member. 

13 minutes ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

@MusketDeezNuts 6.6.2 An attempt to provoke a police chase, without a realistic reason, also known as “cop baiting” (a realistic reason
would be to divert police units away from an area, where your allies plan to commit a serious crime or are in the
progress of one)..

Calling fake 911 calls has long been part of the cop baiting rule and many people have been given an offense for it.
If you stumble upon a medic using a helicopter it would have been fine.

Locked for review by ballinbynature.

Much love
-Musket

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Quite a bit of irony in the report in my opinion. You state that his actions breached non-RP but started the post with that since you wrote that you were a marine that means you can fly helicopters and your best plan was to use your own cell phone to call and ask for a helicopter from the medical department. That in itself in my opinion qualifies for the rule you are trying to report Marco for.

Thus, is why he acted, and after discussion among staff it is agreed that calling PD/MD and purposefully requesting a helicopter is non-RP. Aviation will eventually be open to public as well when the RP environment allows for serious use of it. This is not an example of that.

No action will be taken as MarcoD's actions were within our staff guidelines.

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