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Raven_Derose[ID65] | Jameson_Derose[ID14] | Tony_Giancotti[ID8] | Klaus_Derose[ID72] | Jack_Derose[ID105] 117 Ddeathmatching | Powergaming | Ruleplaying

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Player(s) being reported : IDs 65, 14, 8, 72, 105, and 118
Date of interaction reported : 29/September/2022
Unix time stamp from HUD : 1664421874

Your characters name: Theodore_Dick
Other player(s) involved: Gavin_Sands, Marcos_Chandler, Galileo_Czapiewski

Specific rule(s) broken:

 

14. Deathmatching (DM)

Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police. 

 

10. Powergaming (PG)

Powergaming is defined as inserting unrealistic actions into a character's actions that would otherwise not be possible in real life, providing non-factual statements in /do, or not allowing other players a chance to roleplay responses and their own actions to your roleplay. Some examples of powergamin

Players may use forceful commands such as /frisk, /cuff, /drag, /cpr, /stabilize after RP, or if the party is unresponsive for 30 seconds.

 

6. Ruleplaying

Ruleplaying is a term used when players are using, manipulating, or interpreting rules or rulings falsely or outside of their intention, in an unrealistic or unintended way that does not constitute quality or realistic RP standards. 

How did the player break the rule(s)?

They attacked and killed 4 DOC guards with little to no reasoning behind it. All 4 of us were going hunting and we saw them out in their car so we went to say hi. At this point they said "lets kidnap 4 DOC guards" so we ran away because they had put the threat out to kidnap us initiating the situation with little to no motive or escalation behind it. We were running and they continually chased us for no reason so we called the police as we couldn't do anything since we are all legal characters that work at DOC. They continued to chase us until one of them blocked the toll off with a bike where they had all then sprayed us down with no demands or anything given just killing all of us then pulling me out of the car with no RP for it. They also kinda ruleplayed into baiting us to call the police to attempt to gain DM rights on us.

Evidence of rule breach: 

 

Edited by Hassan_Readick
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PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

  • Tony_Giancotti (8) 

  • Klaus_Derose (72) 

  • Jack_Derose (105) 

  • Hector_Derose (118)

  • Raven_Derose (65)

  • Jameson_Derose (14) 

 

--- Please provide any POV/Testimony for the above mentioned report. In your responses, please explain your reasoning for attacking the group of players seen in the reporting party. What is the interaction and escalation that lead to this moment? Why was the reporting party attacked in this manner and what circumstances dignified the reasoning for the level of attack/violence displayed in the provided POV as seen above?

 

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,

Sr. Support Goddammitkopi
Sr.Moderator Wolokai142

 

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  Please provide any POV/Testimony for the above mentioned report. In your responses, please explain your reasoning for attacking the group of players seen in the reporting party. What is the interaction and escalation that lead to this moment? Why was the reporting party attacked in this manner and what circumstances dignified the reasoning for the level of attack/violence displayed in the provided POV as seen above?


Hello Klaus Derose here (id 72). So I was rolling up north (labs) with Hector And Jack Derose, my two brothers. I was sitting in the back seat of the car while hector drove and Jack was  sitting in the passenger seat. We were waiting for other members of our gang to finish at bayview i believe till we started back up with the labs. That's when we heard our other brother and sister (Mr.b and Raven) say something on the radio about a car of DOC guards. So we were going to go say hi and joke with them as we always do when we see them out and about. My intentions alone were to say hi and go back to labs. I Guess these guards really thought we were gonna kidnap all 4 of them which makes no sense like none at all! Once we started going towards where it was called out we heard they had begun to call cops on us. So Mr.b ,Raven and Tony were chasing them because they admitted that they had called the cops. 

Deathmatching (DM)

 

Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police. 


So they kept chasing them. At this point we were trying to catch up due to Hector's best driving skills haha ( part of the video of us flipped on the mountain trail by the bridge). Once we had eyes on them and circled back to the tolls from out front lumber yard, we then made a spin around and started heading to the tolls where they were at that's when tony got off his bike and pulled his gun on them same as Raven and Mr.B that's when we pulled behind them and seen them trying to run away while guns where already drawn at them they began to panic and crash into the side wall that's when I started to give demands with the micro hanging out the window and they began to still try to drive off and scream and laugh so I began to shoot the driver then work my way down the car to ensure that the snitch was dead and we could get out and fast knowing cops could show up and soon as we turned out of there cops were coming down the road with lights on responding to the call they had made. Confirming the measure we took and the act of so called violence was necessary for our safety to make it out untouched and alive.



My Pov:

 

Edited by YungSlick
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I play Jack Derose, I had not been recording during these events so I have no pov to upload. What I can say for sure is that we had no intention of kidnapping anyone we were rolling labs when Raven and Jameson called out about running into some doc guards we knew. It had turned out to be a some we don't really get along with, they often lock us in our cells for our entire sentences and refuse to give us food or water, but no plans to rob or attack the doc guards were in motion Raven and Jameson were just messing with them and laughing as they were saying they would kidnap them. Hector Klaus and myself still not planning to do anything and just riding around between the drug labs we had been checking...the reason we were so heavily armed in the first place. This is when we get a call over the radio from Jameson saying they are calling cops and then a short time later tony says that they admitted to him they called cops. This is when the kamacho(Hector,Klaus, and I) started trying to catch up to the doc guards and when we managed to block them at double tolls where Tony Raven and Jameson where. Klaus began shouting demands from the car so I aimed my gun and waited for him to engage. Once he began firing on the driver i did the same moving to the passenger when he did. I then allowed the others to take out the two in the back seat cause I was at an angle I could no longer fire from. Hector pulled up a bit and we watched for cops while Raven Jameson and Tony finished them off.

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19 hours ago, Wolokai142 said:

Please provide any POV/Testimony for the above mentioned report. In your responses, please explain your reasoning for attacking the group of players seen in the reporting party. What is the interaction and escalation that lead to this moment? Why was the reporting party attacked in this manner and what circumstances dignified the reasoning for the level of attack/violence displayed in the provided POV as seen above?

Hello! Raven Derose here! 

We had rights when they admitted to calling the police to Tony, ( I also do believe we were realistically close enough to hear them as their windows were down and we were pretty close) and as seen in F chat we did not have the intention of kidnapping / killing them. (Or bait a phone call to begin with)  It was a joke I made, I wouldn't go up to a group of 4 most likely armed doc guards and say "Oh a whole car of DOC guards to kidnap!" I can confirm no one baited anyone, it would be realistic that criminals taunt or make fun of Correctional guards whether or not they are on duty. 

https://youtu.be/h8YPY30YuQI

 

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Firstly the video posted by @Hassan_Readick 3:18 they openly admit to calling the cops. Secondly, the biker (myself) at the toll booth yelled at them to "get out of the truck now!" They did not comply but instead backed up, crashing into one of our cars and attempted to run away. This is backed up by the video of Hassan, 5:18 they were surrounded by 3 vehicles, 8 armed deadly criminals. You can't even hear me yelling demands since they are all screaming in their mics… Finally, this third timestamp portrays they were not responding to RP. I was on the bike and had yelled at them no less than 3 times to pull over. They showed no fear whatsoever in that moment(FRP), they are just DOC guards up against one of the strongest and longest lasting criminal empires in the city's history. 


As for powergaming, I see no relevance whatsoever...? These are DOC guards who bumped into a criminal organization, we have all met them personally in DOC, but we have never been friendly with them. My last interaction with Galileo was "Watch your back" After he and another guard locked me away for 3 hours....They are the prime example of these tough guy officials talking down to everyone around them. This is not a justification but simply the RP we have together. So when 4 of them are joyriding in a truck not 0.5 miles from a lab, it is safe to say this is our space, and if anyone was to call the cops their fate would be very similar.

Using Hassan's own definition, we "baited" DM rights, which in-itself states we in fact had the right. Whether they were baited or not, was their own doing which was clearly confirmed to the biker (myself).

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  Please provide any POV/Testimony for the above mentioned report. In your responses, please explain your reasoning for attacking the group of players seen in the reporting party. What is the interaction and escalation that lead to this moment? Why was the reporting party attacked in this manner and what circumstances dignified the reasoning for the level of attack/violence displayed in the provided POV as seen above?


 

Hello, this is Hector Derose (ID 118). So, basically we were rolling around up north and I think at some point mr b and ravyn were following doc guards and said so. We were told babu was in the car and some other doc guards were going to follow them too and just mess around with them. Did not plan on showing any weapons or any other form of aggression; we had no prior intentions of kidnapping any of them. However at some point they I guess didn't understand we were only messing around and actually believed we were there to kidnap a 4 stacked car of guards. Which then led to them calling the cops. We were informed through tony that they called the cops on us for it. Which honestly shocked and upset us icly. As we all had weapons on us and one of us had a heavy weapon. We did not want to get into the situation but due to them calling the cops we had no choice but to act to take care of the snitch. We received a callout of their direction and came to block them in with a kamacho and get them to all step out of the car. Tony was in front of them and pointed a weapon at them though I'm not sure if he was shouting or not, however there was still a clear show of force. We had also boxed him in and were yelling for him to get out of the car. The reporting party still chose to attempt to flee the situation. Not one person put their hands up through /me during that entire interaction. Nor did any of them attempt to get out at any point, especially at the toll booth where they could have gotten out of it. And put their hands up. We were not given the opportunity to kill only the snitch as the others did not comply. They could have even shouted i didn't snitch don't kill me, anything would have been better than nothing and attempted to flee the situation. As you can also see in their video they did indeed call the cops and they named the deroses. With our last name we are already suspect number one in any kidnapping and would without a doubt lead to us getting pulled over or pursued by cops. Which at the time we had heavy weaponry and other weapons on us. Because of this phone call it led to us being pursued by the cops after the initial scene as well as for the next hour. I'd also like to state before the phone call to the cops we had absolutely zero intentions of causing any of them any sort of harm or kidnapping. Not only that, why would we want to kidnap a 4 stack car of guards with no room to put all of them. Nor would it make any sort of sense to just state it like that. The phone call led to us actually having to pursue the snitch. If they had complied at the toll booth instead of trying to run we would have only taken the person who had called the cops who admitted to tony even he did call the cops.I also do not appreciate the fact that the reporting party is under the assumption that we baited that situation to gain dm rights. That is something I do not approve of and I find offensive to be honest. It was all supposed to be a jokingly friendly interaction and nothing more which was blown into what it was by the police being called and not one person in the vehicle complying. It's clear everyone in the car knew us and what we were capable of doing. I'd also like to mention that deroses are treated like trash by just about every doc guard in there, where we are all forced into a cell at the start of each sentence. Half the time we are in there for years at a time not being fed or given water. Which maybe is why they assumed the worst. Yet not one of them chose to put their hands up and try to escape with their life. In the last moments the driver of the vehicle can be seen trying to flee, the passenger is screaming to drive while one back passenger is completely quiet, the other just goes “okay”. They were clearly even so scared of us that they called the cops without us even showing any sort of threat to them(only a verbal joke that didn't even sound serious). However, at no point did they try to put their hands up or make any sort of attempt to keep their lives. I can assure you that if they had made any attempt even minor they would have been spared if they did not snitch and complied with our demands. Even further confirming the call to the cops, cops rolled up on scene with lights on due to the snitch calling the cops. Also being members of doc they would have all spoken to the cops telling them exactly who did it despite not actually seeing our faces. Which again would lead to the same thing that occurred due to the cop call, them pursuing us while we have guns in the car. However as stated before if anyone attempted to comply in that situation they would have been spared if they did not snitch.  Even with the last name, if I hadn't done anything wrong, simply carrying a gun is a risk. I am pulled out of the car randomly at most if not all traffic stops despite if i just woke up or did anything recently or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CvDrHrgZH8

Edited by bulbasaur420
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Jameson Derose (Mr B) As I was with Raven Derose the whole time, her story is my story except I was the driver. We know the guards personally and we wanted to joke with them. You can even hear in the video provided by the reporting party Galileo saying "I think it was a joke". Our intentions were only of a joking manner in no way were we hostile. I would also like to add in what world would kidnapping 4 DOC guards at the same time be smart or even worth it. As well as telling those same DOC guards that we were going to kidnap them.

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  • Tony_Giancotti (8) - As an additional inquiry, can you please explain your actions as they pertain to your behavior on the BF400? Why did you attempt to speak to the individuals in the forward vehicle at a high rate of speed? Do you believe you could be heard in a realistic manner during this exchange? Can you provide some context as to why you continuously rammed into the truck or attempted to block off the vehicle from passing the tolls with your bike, or the reasoning for the wheeling in a pursuit-like situation? Do you believe this demonstrated a positive concern over the safety of your character?

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I attempted to speak to the individuals because first of all there is nothing stopping me, but more importantly, I was told by my family that they had just called the cops on us. When I made contact they confirmed it. As I described in my initial response, there is even a time stamp. Their voices were very loud as they were screaming at the top of their lungs. 

 I was not trying to ram them, it can be heard that they in fact said and I quote "ram the stupid bike." I was trying to get close to speaking to them, any other perceived action was not my intent (I would get crushed). My character has been involved in crime since he was created more than 4 months ago. He has seen his fair share of fast car chases, murder, shootouts and so forth, this was just four DOC guards who gave him a reason to pull them out of the car when they admitted to calling the cops. 

As for the wheelie, I did not wheelie when things escalated. It's mostly a force of habit. 

 

 

Edited by Praetorian
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REPORT ACCEPTED
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After reviewing this report and evidence attached to it, we've decided to accept this report and issue the punishments to the following player(s):

  • Tony_Giancotti (8) - Deathmatching | Ruleplaying | Non-Roleplay(FearRP)

  • Klaus_Derose (72) - Deathmatching | Ruleplaying

  • Jack_Derose (105) - Deathmatching | Ruleplaying

  • Hector_Derose (118) - Ruleplaying

  • Raven_Derose (65) - Ruleplaying

  • Jameson_Derose (14) - Deathmatching | Ruleplaying

  • The reasoning for these determinations are as follows:

  • - In the case of Deathmatching this situation in its entirety along with the context provided, displayed a scenario in which there was a weak basis of interaction, escalation, and IC motive. The interactions that were seen and played out through its entirety do not show a realistic timeline that should have escalated to murder. The basis of this scenario as explained by the reported party listed this entire scene as an 'attempts at a joke'. For this reason, this mentality should have held throughout the scenario. Escalating from the pre-planned notion of joking/harrassing the reporting party to outright killing them for a report to police (while listed as an example in the rules) is not justifiable in this specific context. The options available to the reported party in how to handle this situation were numerous, and the decision to conclude it in the manner it was, are not acceptable. All parties state that the intention was not hostile, and that engaging 4 DOC officers in this manner was not sensible, yet these actions were committed anyway. The only potential context provided for any IC motive listed was "DOC guards leaving people in cells for hours". It is the responsibility of the reported party to be prepared to provide proof and reasoning for interactions or escalations of attacking other players if they are from scenarios outside of the one currently being addressed in a report. The reasoning for DOC guards potentially committing to these actions could theoretically lead to a hostile act against them in a different scenario sure, but for attacks such as these, there would need to be well documented proof of such that shows the justification for the level of attack committed. In this case, the interaction and escalation of a group of criminals acting in a 'joking' manner to DOC shows that even though there was potential conflict between both parties because of DOC's treatment of inmates in past scenarios, these conflicts and mentalities were not present or addressed in the initial intentions of the reported party, and were not acted upon or utilized as proper IC motive to make an attack on the reporting party that doesn't include outright convenience for the situation at hand. 

  • -In the case of Ruleplaying, the reasoning for attacking these players has been addressed in unison as "A call to the police." To preface this explanation, it is understood that the example of "Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or report to the police" is listed under the Deathmatching rules. This is known and accepted knowledge, however, these are merely 'examples'. These are not checklist bullet points that serve as a basis or gateway to attack other players or to gain automatic DM rights. Other examples of this context would be opening fire on LEO's for them turning their lights and sirens on you as a means at an attempted arrest, or shooting someone on sight without any interaction because they tried to rob you at an earlier scenario. Context and case-by-case information are key to determining if you have the valid rights to attack another player, and written and displayed examples of rules should not be utilized in a checklist-mentality to govern how you decide OOC-ly or IC-ly to behave and/or act in certain scenarios. With this explanation in mind and as basis, in this particular scenario all of the reported party have stated that their intentions for this situation were merely a 'joking' attempt. It has been stated that the sensibility in attacking these players was not present, and the intention was to simply harass said individuals. However, this entire mentality and motivation changed with a report to the police, to which then the reporting party was murdered for such. If the reported party's intentions were merely for a joke/harassment, after a phone call to the police was made, an attempts at talking to said LEO's to explain your side or simply fleeing were on the table. By taking a joking scenario, and escalating it immediately to murder based upon the sole context of a phone call being made to the police in this manner shows that the decisions made here were of a checklist mentality. Only after this call is made do the reported party choose to escalate the situation to extreme hostilities in the middle of an open highway a stones throw away from Paleto and the Sheriff's Department. The example given of "The group being 0.5 miles away from a lab" has no bearing on the actions of people traveling nearby, nor should it govern their actions in doing such unless its for the specifics of investigations as an LEO or for criminal activity. This also does not give you a "right" to the space in the manner of being able to attack or engage any player that comes too close to you, for the sake of that context alone. By this logic, the reverse would be applicable to criminals who should not be operating illegally so close to the Sheriff's Department in Paleto Bay. No other motives were listed or expressed, no other reason for attacking the reporting party have been presented or been made aware besides this particular phone call, which completely negates the reported party's expressed intentions of "non-hostile / joking". There are numerous examples in which a phone call to the police would grant sensible reasoning to attack other players, but there are also many which would 'not', and this is the reason why a report to the police is considered 'an example under context'.

  • -In the case of Non-Roleplay: The utilization of the BF400 seen by Tony_Giancotti are unrealistic and dangerous. In the provided POV's you can be seen performing several dangerous maneuvers, including coming into close proximity and even physical contact with a truck much larger in mass, including blocking off access to the tollroads with said vehicle against a class of vehicle that would have no realistic troubles running straight through you. These behaviors as a whole do not demonstrate any sensible care or concern for your character's life, and are not acceptable in terms of realistic roleplay standards.

  • In conclusion, this scenario based upon the reported party's expressed intentions before the shooting and hostilities, has no provable, discernable, or reasonable escalation for shooting/murdering the reporting party other than for the sake of doing so based upon a 'checklist oriented' decision made to circumvent the Deathmatching rules for merely the ability to shoot them for convenience. These are not acceptable levels of roleplay for this community, and engaging in such major hostilities just for the sake of doing so based upon the previous mentioned mentality will not be tolerated.

If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file a refund request following the refund request guidelines and format. 

Regards,

Sr. Support Goddammitkopi
Sr.Moderator Wolokai142 & Risk

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