Unknown (yet) DM

[Zemaitc]

Player(s) being reported:  PD employee ( can be found through kill logs)
Date of rule breach: 22/11/2018
Time of rule breach: Around 19:49   Lithuania time

Your characters name: Vito Magelanni
Other players involved: PD employees on the scene

Specific rule broken:

7.2 Deathmatch
7.2.1 Deathmatch is the act of killing or hurting another player (or damaging their property) without a proper roleplay reason.
An attempt to break this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.

How did the player break the rule?:

I was driving towards Osvalds farm/lab, went past general store and the gas station, there was a shootout and I saw an injured body, looked around for police to be around the body, there were none, so I decided to look for items. When I did that, I was instantly shot without any warnings to leave, to not do that etc. The question is who did this ( kill log can show, asked support for help which is an evidence in screenshot added below). As far as I know players are not allowed to shoot other players for looting.

P.S. after like few mins another guy does the same, loots me, when cops were near me, they didn't shoot him nor stopped him from looting and let him go  so are there double standards? Sadly was too frustrated and didn't save that episode.

Evidence: 

Talk with a support: https://gyazo.com/4ef92ec04c746dbcc485a52f9c01970f

[Flucifial]

Pending assistance from @Osvaldon for old kill logs.

[Flucifial]

Kill logs would only show who injured you, not all that shot you, therefore, only one would get accused and possibly punished and not the other and for that reason this report will be rejected as evidence does not provide the rule breakers doing the act. 

[BallinByNature]

With some new evidence it was able to determine that it was Mike Adams will be asked to respond with his reason for killing the person here as he calls them down over the radio in other evidence. 

[MrSix]

Hi there, Mike Adams here!

I feel as the context is quite important here due to the short video. This has been some time ago but I remember this being a very big shootout situation where cops got injured and a lot of criminals. We also had multiple drive-by's as I can remember, meaning no one passing the scene was trusted for 100%.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let us talk about why I opened fire on you and shot you down. In this shootout, I (believe but do not recall fully cause as I said, this has been a few weeks ago) there was heavy weaponry involved along with many other illegal items. When we shoot someone down, and they have their (possible) heavy weapon laying next to them, and the next thing I see is someone standing near that weapon and kneeling down to (from what an officer can tell) pick up the weapon and potentially open fire on cops again. When I saw that someone was possibly picking up firearms to fight us, I made the choice to shoot. 

Many, many warnings were given to everyone to stop returning to the scene, yet people kept doing so. Picking up items on an active shootout scene will never end well since cops have no clue what your intentions may be. Besides that we do know there are gangs out there with clothing exactly as yours, meaning we will feel threatened on an active scene like this.

 

I wish I still had footage, but due to this being a few weeks old, I do not. If there's any further explanation needed, I can provide and will when asked!

I hope you can understand my reasoning now.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Bucolic_6

[Zemaitc]

Hello Mike,

thanks for responding, I'm going to mention every single one of your points and respond to them.

Bucolic_6 said: I feel as the context is quite important here due to the short video. This has been some time ago but I remember this being a very big shootout situation where cops got injured and a lot of criminals. We also had multiple drive-by's as I can remember, meaning no one passing the scene was trusted for 100%.

Context always matters I agree with you. There was indeed a big shootout, that is correct. I don't know about the drive-bys, I wasn't there when "drive-bys" happened. No one ever should be trusted for 100%, Mike.

Bucolic_6 said:  there was heavy weaponry involved along with many other illegal items

I agree, it is correct.

Bucolic_6 said: When we shoot someone down, and they have their (possible) heavy weapon laying next to them, and the next thing I see is someone standing near that weapon and kneeling down to (from what an officer can tell) pick up the weapon and potentially open fire on cops again. When I saw that someone was possibly picking up firearms to fight us, I made the choice to shoot

Let me get something straight. Mike is claiming that he didn't know if the person had a heavy weapon next to them or not and he also didn't know what the guy that's kneeling next to them is doing and he still fired at the guy (me) anyway. That is called DM, Mike.

As evident in the footage below, mike can be seen at 00:02 on the video on the right-hand side, behind a rock. Judging by him tap firing and how he was focused on the east side of the road, I would say he stayed where he was or just moved around slightly. That means when the "unknown person", which happened to be me, kneeled down next to Nina Gilbert, Mike was ~ 50 meters away from him and all he could see was a man kneeling next to another person. He didn't know if I was checking Nina's pulse to see if she's alive or not and he shot me before I even attempted to pick up anything from her https://gyazo.com/f9aa14578d4df9cebe3a96e4715deef2 . As you can see in that screenshot, I was shot before even selecting the heavy pistol.

So what happened was, Mike saw a guy kneeling next to a woman and he gunned the guy down because he thought the guy might pick up the woman's non-existence AK which would kinda mean that I am about to go into 1 v 10 situation against the cops at the scene and I would win that? Sorry, but that was not gonna happen.

Bucolic_6 said: Many, many warnings were given  to everyone to stop returning to the scene

 No. There were no warning given to me. As you can see in the footage, there was nothing said before I was shot. There were no demands for me to comply with. I could be a petrified husband kneeling next to my wife, checking her pulse to see if she's alive. I could be a thief that just saw the opportunity to steal some valuables. You were too far away to see anything, there were no demands given to me before I got shot, I didn't point a gun at anyone or show any sign of aggression or hostile action, yet I was shot. You didn't have KOS on me and you didn't have an RP reason to kill me there.

Bucolic_6 said: Picking up items on an active shootout scene will never end well since cops have no clue what your intentions may be

You shot me before I picked up anything. My radar's turned red and there's a red triangle on the right side of the screen, indicating that someone's shooting me from the east. The weapon isn't fully highlighted, indicating that I hadn't picked up nor selected the gun https://gyazo.com/6d6ef9ac1128c4ea6311618606730b05.

As you can see in this footage 

Bucolic_6 said: Besides that we do know there are gangs out there with clothing exactly as yours, meaning we will feel threatened on an active scene like this

Well I could feel threatened when I saw people of a specific skin color, it doesn't give me the right to murder them in cold blood. Just because brown's my favorite color that doesn't mean you can murder for it or just assume who I am since you don't know me ICly.

Bucolic_6 said: I wish I still had footage, but due to this being a few weeks old, I do not. If there's any further explanation needed, I can provide and will when asked

I understand that, it should have been dealt sooner, but there were a lot of walls to climb to get to this point. And I am sharing every video that I have here for you to see also

Evidence:
Noah Baxtor's point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQGCkKJX3Pw
My point of view: https://youtu.be/yU6aHzmrrnE
Both videos back to back: https://youtu.be/DP8-K-qaL9Q
The aftermath of the shooting: https://youtu.be/CsP9MeGwWEk
Whole stream of Noah Baxtor's, time stamp around 1:40:00 : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/339610437?filter=all&sort=time

I hope it covers it all. If anything else, I will respond to staff if needed,

Vito.

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Zemaitc
to sepearate the quotas and my replies

[MrSix]

Hey hey,

Just to quickly come back on you saying that, me not knowing what you're doing means I cannot shoot you, I disagree with. Me not knowing your intentions are exactly the reason for the threat. You claim you wouldn't have shot, cause you're outnumbered, and I wish I could go by that, but as you may or may not know, not many criminals do RP the fear of being outnumbered. 

Also on an active shootout, I can't be busy keeping count of who had the AK and where it is, my mission is to save my fellow officers.

In general, it is quite silly to roll up on an ACTIVE (when you rolled up, automatic gunfire was present) crime scene like this and start looting people. That's just a little insane in my opinion.

I still go with all I said above and I do not believe I did break any rules. DM goes by killing someone for no RP reason -> my RP reason is that you're picking up items from injured suspects on an active shootout scene where multiple officers got hurt and killed.

(Due to there being a difference in the "looting" animation and /anim kneel animation, players are able to tell if you are in fact picking up items or at least are intending to do so.)

I would like to see you repeating what you did here in a real-life situation and see how that ends up. You'd most likely be taken out as well.

I'm sorry you still do not agree with me and still feel as if this was DM.

 

 

[Zemaitc]

I am not gonna discuss this further, I think we both made our points clear and its up to staff to make a decision if your reason is valid and acceptable by the rulebook, which I can't find in there, sadly. 

For me it is quite similar to this: 

 

, except cops were not involved here, but we all have the same rules to follow and the same reasons to have to open fire.

I think you can make your decision here @BallinByNature unless there is something else I can add, although I think I added enough to make my point as clear as possible. 

[Hazel]

Pending @BallinByNature for review. 

[BallinByNature]

It is clear in the beginning of the video there are active gunshots heard & multiple police vehicles / people running on foot. The fact that you decided to stop and begin looting bodies during an active shoot out shows a conscious decision to insert yourself into a dangerous situation for potential gain via looting. As you can see, you were indeed actively looting weaponry from a suspect who had just been shot by police.

Mike Adams was acting on his knowledge that the individual you were looting was just downed and was actively shooting, leading him to know that there was a fire arm potentially being looted at the time, which as seen in your video, he was correct.

Due to other incriminating circumstances, such as you being in a full mask yourself not looking like an innocent civilian, he made the decision to neutralize a potential threat during an active shoot out.

Attempting to loot people in an active shoot out qualifies as role play interaction with those involved in the shoot out warranting being shot. You are actively attempting theft of evidence / potential theft of property in the middle of a shoot out giving them valid reason to take action against you.

Report will be denied, as there was valid reason to shoot being that you were stealing from a crime scene.