Admin and PD corruption

[DISCO]

25 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

I'd like to ask everybody to keep good communications going.  Not inflammatory or aggressive but communications focused on solutions.  What should have been done differently?  What would you like to see in the future?  I realize there's a lot of frustrations built up but let's try to keep this solution-focused rather than how wrong someone was or wasn't.  We're a community here and should keep that in mind, since we all want what's best for the server.

 

These things can derail fast as hell and I don't want to see this go to a bad place and get locked, satisfying none of the parties.

They are pointing the problems and the evidence. 

If they will lock this thread, this will be a clear sign that staff and devs doesn't give a damn about community opinion and that would literally show no respect for the community. 

The key of a good and healthy community is not advocating themselves after a fuck up, but to accept the evidence and start to change, the key is to listen to community and be responsible for their actions. Community will usually leave if their voices are unheard.

[Taedolf]

3 minutes ago, DISCO said:

They are pointing the problems and the evidence. 

If they will lock this thread, this will be a clear sign that staff and devs doesn't give a damn about community opinion and that would literally show no respect for the community. 

The key of a good and healthy community is not advocating themselves after a fuck up, but to accept the evidence and start to change, the key is to listen to community and be responsible for their actions. Community will usually leave if their voices are unheard.

I'm not saying things are being done wrong now but cautioning, because if it does cross the threshold of constructive then it can and should be locked.

[DISCO]

4 hours ago, nateX said:

PD has gotten everything nerfed. Their cruisers barely go 190, and their regular cruisers go faster than their supercars that they can take out. And I don't see how drug lab destroying nor phone tracking is powergaming...

the script doesnt allow to change the number, change the phone (which criminals actively do IRL) and remember, that there is only 5 labs and destroying it on hourly basis is unrealistic. WOW, LETS PULL THE TRIGGER OF AUTOMATIC RIFFLE AND HEAR THE KABOOM SOUND, what a joy. you would reach better results by leaving them alive instead of destroying them, dont you think? more active labs - more arrests, more space for crimes and RP situations - happy server.

3 hours ago, nateX said:

Parties involved for said actions have received a disciplinary from PD High Command for display of RP not up to par with PD standards. If you feel like any server rules were violated, please post a report. I don't see how this video is relevant to the discussion in this thread.

Basic every admin bullshit, go file a report blah blah blah. The whole thread is about PD admins doing sketchy stuff, but when you file a report to PD, which takes sometimes twice longer than a casual OOC report, you still get an answer in like 3 weeks at best. No one takes an action and hides blindly upon the server rules, especially when situations comes for the sake of RP.

I had situations which were close to rulebreaking, but the RP was so high level, but still got reported or nearly reported for very little minor problems, because staff can't  understand that situation had so much RP into it that a minor rule break doesnt even matter in that point.

People are pointing at the problems and the guys from PD are still defending themselfs, which is pretty pathetic.

One day I got arrested for the guy running into me going like 160km/h, sirens were on, but the rage mp client didn't produced the sound of the sirens. Salty cop tracked me down, even tho he agreed that it might be an OOC problem, he still arrested me FOR MAX JAIL TIME, instead of voiding the RP. Later he OOCly said he doesnt need my identification because "I dont need to roleplay by taking your ID, I just made a search on you". The cherry on the pie was MarcoD spawning in the prison while I was trying to find a common ground with the officer in OOC chat, hurrying me up and refusing to hear my story AFTER he ignored my report in game and insta closed two reports in a row, while the problem was OOC.

 

EDIT: the post was so long that this part wasnt posted on the previous post.

[Andor]

Honestly the problem is that the majority of the admin team is in the PD and that the server allows people to play on their "admin" characters. 
A admin character imo should be seperated from the RP character. This will stop people like travis palmer ( god rest his beautiful soul ) who over a long period of PD chief used his admin powers to pause RP where the PD was losing or not following PD standards. It was a long time before anything was done to stop this.
Secondly I feel the PD always wants to win. 5 cops later 7 ( I believe ) go to a party with known criminal activity to arrest a criminal, this is clearly thinking they are not going to be harmed and the shootout that followed where around 30 people got mowed down by machine gun fire was the result. 
The list is endless and for people who have a PD character with a criminal alt that dissagree with the things being said in this thread AND my post I tell you this: Its easier to look from inside the PD to the outside and have a side character which is just a I am just using to kill the time then the other way around.

I also told people that I feel the PD culture as a whole is bad, very very bad. Its modeled IMO after nazi germany, where everyone is on edge and reporting everyone else for the smallest thing. ( hitler made everyone fight everyone for his approval, I am not saying the PD are nazi's ) This made people who have a more relaxed mood to leave PD and only leaving the people are strickt as fuck and have no chill pill. There are a few exceptions but they only prove the rule as a whole. 

The other thing is that there are no no go zones for the PD in this city at all. Meaning dangerous zones where criminals are semi in control, where normal patrol cars dont go for the fear of getting shot.

Then there is the problem with the KOS rule, in gang wars or criminals doing criminal shit with a lot to lose KOS should be allowed up to a degree. ( if reported they need to provide proof of the things they were about to lose ). Completly killing KOS makes the PD have a other advantage for surprise attacks can be the differnce between life and death for a criminal faction.  

[Taedolf]

6 minutes ago, Andor said:

Honestly the problem is that the majority of the admin team is in the PD and that the server allows people to play on their "admin" characters. 
A admin character imo should be seperated from the RP character.

I assume you're suggesting removing the ability for admins to respond to situations they are a part of in rp?  If so, I wholeheartedly agree.  Levels of bias are difficult to avoid in situations anyone is a part of.  While we, myself included, like to think we are above such things, it is human nature to have bias when personally involved in something.

 

Instead, admins involved in situations should be required to do the same things players are:  take evidence and have another admin rule on it.  It removes potential bias from the equation and ensures mistakes due to bias do not happen.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Taedolf
suggestion added

[Andor]

3 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

I assume you're suggesting removing the ability for admins to respond to situations they are a part of in rp?  If so, I wholeheartedly agree.  Levels of bias are difficult to avoid in situations anyone is a part of.  While we, myself included, like to think we are above such things, it is human nature to have bias when personally involved in something.

No I have played and was a mod on serveral SAMP servers where a RP character isnt allowed to go on admin duty at all. 
The system was. Admin rank 1 to 6, 1 you need to be in admin duty 3 hours each week ( it was tracked ) and it went up with rank. The highest being 6 I believe. This is a seperate character slot you were gifted once you got added into the admin team. 

[Taedolf]

Just now, Andor said:

No I have played and was a mod on serveral SAMP servers where a RP character isnt allowed to go on admin duty at all. 
The system was. Admin rank 1 to 6, 1 you need to be in admin duty 3 hours each week ( it was tracked ) and it went up with rank. The highest being 6 I believe. This is a seperate character slot you were gifted once you got added into the admin team. 

I think we could get the same result by forbidding admins to rule on situations they are involved in, tbh.  Players are also more quick to doubt an admin ruling on something they were involved in, whether they were correct or not, simply because they have something to gain for ruling against you.

[Andor]

2 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

I think we could get the same result by forbidding admins to rule on situations they are involved in, tbh.  Players are also more quick to doubt an admin ruling on something they were involved in, whether they were correct or not, simply because they have something to gain for ruling against you.

The problem is with the system in place is that admins who are dealing with RP have to break off RP or ignore a report for a bit to do continue the RP.
This adds extra time to the whole situation

Edited October 13, 2018 by Andor

[Tjml_]

I would also love to add the point, that PD should pay for weapons. Prices can be low as fuck, but spawning a rifle out of your car is just fuckin non-rp. Since theres no other way to destroy labs without guns, pd gets to abuse withdrawing guns and destroying everything, when they shouldn't.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Tjml_

[Taedolf]

Just now, Andor said:

The problem is with the system in place is that admins who are dealing with RP have to break off RP or ignore a report for a bit to do continue the RP.

Hmm, I didn't think of that.  True enough.  I was thinking smaller picture.  It does make being an admin more of a chore but.. well, that's what admin work is.  Thankless chore work.

 

(on that note, ty admins.)

[King Tom]

Just make it so Admins cant involve themselves when they're playing on PD characters etc. let another admin deal with the report. without some bias fuckery

[Andor]

Just now, Taedolf said:

Hmm, I didn't think of that.  True enough.  I was thinking smaller picture.  It does make being an admin more of a chore but.. well, that's what admin work is.  Thankless chore work.

 

(on that note, ty admins.)

Admin duty is a chore but it has rewards ( you get credits I believe ) or other things that can be handed out to make it worth while. 
And I agree admins get shit talked a lot but that doesnt mean they shoudnt be open to critique when its given in a respectfull way which at the moment, just as the PD is a point that needs  massive improvemen

[Taedolf]

1 minute ago, Andor said:

Admin duty is a chore but it has rewards ( you get credits I believe ) or other things that can be handed out to make it worth while. 
And I agree admins get shit talked a lot but that doesnt mean they shoudnt be open to critique when its given in a respectfull way which at the moment, just as the PD is a point that needs  massive improvemen

Damn, I wish all my admin/mod work on other communities and even the volunteer crap I did for an indy MMO had rewards xd

[Andor]

1 minute ago, Taedolf said:

Damn, I wish all my admin/mod work on other communities and even the volunteer crap I did for an indy MMO had rewards xd

The rewards vary. From extra car slots, first dibs on houses, exclusive admin cars ( like for example only admins can have a sultan RS ) stuff like that. Or ingame credits or tax breaks. 
 

[ElisabethC]

I am not here to shut down this thread. Let's make that clear before reading.

I'm happy to see that a big part of this thread is constructive, and nicely worded up. When I first saw this thread, I was very afraid we were going to have a big "bash PD and staff" thread. Most of you guys proved otherwise, and for that: thank you.

I do see targetted hate, tho. I understand that it's frustrating, and I understand that it might be that a specific staff member may be slipping up a lot in your eyes. That doesn't mean this thread should turn out into a "bash this staff member" thread.

If you see a staff member break rules, you post a forum report. It's been done before, and it's the only correct way to handle this. I've seen plenty of clips here that could have been reported. I get that it may seem that staff are untouchable, and reporting them server no issue. Know that that is very far from the truth, and we are more than open to recieve reports and constructive feedback. A good example for this is ItzKnight, who himself admitted he was punished for the clip that was shown above. Being part of the staff team doesn't put you above the rulebook, and the higher ups do keep a good eye for that. 

But that doesn't mean they see everything. It means that sometimes things can slip through the net. That's where you make a forum report, so it gets looked at in due time. Keeping all your frustration to yourself, and letting it spill out in a targetted post is not the way to handle this.

I'm speaking for myself here: I want this thread to continue, on the condition the comments are constructive, and not pointless. I get that being a criminal can be incredibly frustrating, and I think it's a good idea that there is some communication from both sides. I would ask that you keep it positive. This doesn't mean you can't point out flaws, it means that you can't go around saying things like "half of the staff members are bad". All members of our staff team work very hard to uphold a positive image, and it's very dissapointing to see them painted as evil or lazy. If you have a problem with a staff member, report them in the appropriate ways.

As I personally barely play on my alt, I'll be keeping out of this conversation. This doesn't mean that I won't be reading up on it. Trust me, plenty of staff members are. I know it may seem that we don't listen to the community from time to time, but I don't think that can be further from the truth. Look at how many suggestions are taken from the Server Suggestions, and put into the game! The removal of the salary limit, the changed car inventory sizes, police changes,... are all player suggested. It's not always easy to implement everything, or realistic. But it does happen, and you shouldn't forget that fact.

Please try to keep it civil. This thread has potential, so please try to keep your emotional in check when typing out replies.

- Boxxy

[Berge]

I see positives and negatives iwth the admin and PD right now.

First of all we all need to remember that everyone on the server is playing to have fun, and ofc that is gonna influence a decition, and when you add multiple hours, days or even months invested ingame to a character, there is quite a bit of emotions there aswell.

I know for a fact that PD treat everyone differently, some have freinds they won't arrest, others have enemies they always want to take down. But hey, that's their RP for all I know.

My biggest problem is however not PD or admins, it's them together. I have had a situation where I took a police car I found on the side of the road, it was unlocked and I went for a joyride. Suddenly while in the middle of the windmill park the car was teleported away. When I reported it I was met with "the guy crashed so he took it back, it's his right so don't complain", and I see the point. I should be asked to take the car back myself via a Bleet or something, because I was stuck out in the middle of nowhere and it took me 30 minutes of report denies and some discord conversation to get a teleport back to LS. I felt very disrespected. If anyone would have asked me, I would have taken the car back at once, no complaints.

 

I have had admins making up rules, to force criminal RP down (I won't mention names, simply because I don't want anyone to get in trouble at this time)

 

I think that there are too many shitty RPers out there, so PD and admins get tired of dealing with it. They just close, ignore and move through cases as quickly as possible, becasue the game is not as fun as it was. I can barely stand to play at my MD character anymore because of all the "broken legs" on the server. I have a macro made just for it, and my macro button is soon due for a replacement. Everyone chooses a broken leg. That is the state of RP quality,

 

Everyone wants to win a situation, and noone thinks that they might be wrong. I think that the problem is all of our faults, we need to teach new members how to RP, and we need to accept that if we are criminals, PD should be superior to us. But we should never accept that admins treat people differently.

 

To improve the system I think that there should be added multiple things:

* Make it public when PD officers gets a slap on the fingers (add it in the newspaper or something)

* Have written rules on how admins should handle a situation that is avaliable for everyone.

* The server rules is as stated, and everyone have to RP by it (If a rule is not stated, it's not valid. Please make more rules, but make them visible)

* Make it easy to discuss why an admin ruled as they did with the admin in question, without the admin going on the defencive or being aggresive.

* Stop with the "you can make a complaint about it" from PD (we don't care about getting someone punished, we just don't wanna spend 2 hours in jail because officers testemony is sacred and is good enaugh by itself without any other proof)

[Cazual4d]

All i can say is i was at the party after swat turned up and i didnt have a clue what was happening, then out of nowhere i was shot by them even though i didnt have a gun out or on me at the time just stupid as i was with two others that were gunned down by sway without a gun

[MrUntouchable215]

1 hour ago, Berge said:

 

"I think that there are too many shitty RPers out there, so PD and admins get tired of dealing with it. They just close, ignore and move through cases as quickly as possible, becasue the game is not as fun as it was. I can barely stand to play at my MD character anymore because of all the "broken legs" on the server. I have a macro made just for it, and my macro button is soon due for a replacement. Everyone chooses a broken leg. That is the state of RP quality

 

 

LMAO. "Because of all of the broken legs on the server" I can honestly admit that I do that a lot. To be fair though, I do it because I feel like if I say something different and more advanced, then the MD won't know what to do in the moment RP wise. I understand that in both LSC and MD, the RP is sometimes sketchy because unless you're a Mechanic or MD irl, you can sometimes get lost in the RP. I had a time where I fell from a cliff and I RP'd that I had a broken rib cage, fractured legs and a bruised spine and the guy PM'd me like "Come on dude, what the fuck" it was a good laugh and I understood where he was coming from. I'll try to tone down on the broken legs but I have to figure out something more simple that they can use in the RP. Good post overall man, I felt the guilt boiling and had to post haha

 

Also I want to point out, thank you to everyone who put their point of views on this post, I genuinely appreciate it. All of the stuff that's been going on is part of the reason Los Zetas was created. I want to point out to some of the Admins and PD that I know it seems like we're at war with PD and I can understand how that can seem sketchy RP wise but we wanted to reshape how PD reacts to calls and situations and although I mentioned a lot of negatives, I would like to continue forward with also some positives to balance out the scale. I noticed recently that what we've been trying to accomplish has been taking fruit and that's being noticed for sure, whether it's coincidence or part of our doing, I do respect it. I've been seeing a lot more back up arrive in situations that before we started these things, one or two officers would show up to try to arrest 15 people. You'll notice sometimes that when that happens, we're quick to roll on those officers.

  The swat situation at the party I felt was unjust but that doesn't take away from the other things I've been seeing as of recently as well. All we want is the same standard of RP that's being pushed onto the criminals. A situation happened yesterday where we were all at Paul's farm and a guy of ours escaped detainment and ran away with a police cruiser and he came to us for help and we expected one or two officers to show up, so we were ready to gun them down if needed but instead, almost 10 officers showed up including some higher ups and we had no choice but to scatter and our boy was eventually detained along with another one of ours in a muscle car. That is the type of situation I expect from PD, there wasn't some massive shoot out because it wasn't in our favor and the odds were extremely stacked against us. That is the show of power I expect from PD. Come to a scene with back up, handle the situation with precision and level-headedness and make sure you're protected on all angles. Read us our rights, take us to a room for questioning and try to get a snitch under your belt. I would also like to see Weazal News get their own helicopter for news reports as well and get paid more for writing articles and reports and throwing them on youtube like before. We need more interaction and RP. +10000 for everyone that posted so far.

Edited October 13, 2018 by MrUntouchable215

[AuntMeave]

I am going to try and level up an alt to join the police force. From most replies, including myself, I have only spoke from my side and point of view. I have no idea how hard it is or the responsibilities of being part of the PD and I would like to try and learn and understand them as well as take the suggestions on my criminal. 

[JayGamble]

5 hours ago, ItzKnight said:

@JayGamble Hey,

Just letting u know that video u posted was me and im getting punished for it just like any player would, I dont think of myself any different to any other player just because im staff. So that cant be used against anyone here as Im getting punished just like others would. I made a huge mistake and I will be punished and I've already apologised and I feel like absolute shit for doing it but Im not treated differently becuase im staff and i refuse to be treated differently.

Thanks

ItzKnight 

I can 100% appreciate the fact that you take it on the chin, and accept consequences of your actions. It's imperative people (all people, not just those in power) take responsibility for their actions; it's the only way to grow as a person and continue to improve the quality of the server. Ultimately I'm using the footage to show that we are all human, and some times we may break the mold for a few seconds at a time; being crucified over it in a non constructive way, I fear doesn't necessarily combat the problem.

Edited October 13, 2018 by JayGamble

[waffels852]

I don't think a lot of criminal only players understand the difficulties of being in a MD or PD faction, there is an absolute load of information, rules, calls, and just proper way of doing things that are involved. Not only that but especially with PD there is a mass amount of situations that happen on a daily basis, i've had plenty of criminal interactions, as well as purely criminal characters, hell i've had situations where i'm on a criminal and i've made Marco Davis use his revolver just to stop my car. I think it's genuine lack of rp qualities that a lot of criminals do have that make it so much more difficult for PD or MD. We've all seen it and all probably been apart of it. I've seen situations where it should be a good rp session but it ends up the guy in cuffs getting back into a vehicle and bug abusing driving off. That type of stuff as PD or MD is beyond frustrating and it gets tiring after awhile. I'm not saying everyone in this thread can't RP or anything even close to that as i'm friends with a lot of people in this thread and really enjoy the rp I have with them. I am saying that working as PD and getting 100's of calls a day with the same thing happening over and over again makes it incredibly tiring, that's why when i've had interactions I always try and change up whatever is going on, as it's more likely to lead to a better time for not only myself, but for pd or md or whatever the case may be. I've had admin interactions where i've gotten in trouble for fail rp and not one did I argue with it because I understand that they decide not myself or anything else. I love ECRP and wouldn't imagine leaving it for anything, but I do get where the frustration sets in from both perspectives. Working as MD for 6 hours or whatever i'll have like 30 broken legs and yeah it gets boring but it's apart of it and I think everyone in PD/MD understands that, and accepts it, but at the same time they want to have different interactions and I think people need to realize that, as well as working on rp situations.

[Taedolf]

One thing I will say:  if PD/MD are allowed to use TS as inRP comms, so should criminals.  There can't be a double standard.

[MrUntouchable215]

47 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

One thing I will say:  if PD/MD are allowed to use TS as inRP comms, so should criminals.  There can't be a double standard.

Agreed +1

[waffels852]

we don't use ts for inrp comms, we use it for situations that require us to speak oocly, such as code 0 which is a disconnect.

[Andor]

6 minutes ago, waffels852 said:

we don't use ts for inrp comms, we use it for situations that require us to speak oocly, such as code 0 which is a disconnect.

I know for a fact its used