John_Wallace ID 225 - Deathmatching (DM)

[STE]

Player(s) being reported: ID 225
Date of interaction reported: 23/05/2022.
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1653332297

Your character name: Stephen_Joyce
Other player(s) involved: Caesar_Joyce, Killian Shaw

Specific rule(s) broken:

14. Deathmatching (DM)

Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police.  Players must be able to explain their reason and provide proof of prior reasoning if requested.

How did the player break the rule(s)?
We had a shootout up the mountain between Bayview and North Lab, After killing the last enemy I noticed a Heli above us, so I fled for my Contender and picked up a Caesar and Killian before fleeing down the mountain, Upon arriving at the base of the mountain, ID 225 opened fire on the vehicle. I feel like there was no way he could have witnessed me shooting anybody clearly enough to justify shooting me, Even the Heli arrived after I finished shooting, On top of the fact that I went behind a rock before entering the contender, anyone at the base of the mountain could not be SURE that it was me involved, I feel like I was shot under assumption with no escalation, no demands, no pursuit, just straight to shots, even though we posed no active threat to the Sheriffs Department, For all they could have known, we could have been the victims of the previous gunfire that they had heard. We tried to reach out to ID 225 to figure out his reasoning behind shooting us but he didn't want to talk about it and pushed for us to report. 

Evidence of rule breach

https://streamable.com/dg1x6l

[flow]

Hi, ID 225 here.

 

We were on a SED operation down the road when units called in heavy shots by Hole in the Wall. As I arrived on scene, the Contender was clearly identified as being heavily armed and having participated in a shootout with multiple casualties, which can be heard in my POV. The helicopter had been above the scene way sooner than the reporting party thinks, as even in his own POV, the helicopter can be heard even before he kills the player. We had information on the Contender being heavily armed, having participated in a shootout, killed people and removed weapons from the scene, tampering with evidence. As the Contender was leaving the area, they are well aware that they are being pursued. They made a deliberate attempt to get away after being clearly seen commiting serious felonies, a fact which they are also well aware of, so I decided to disable the vehicle with due IC motives and justifications.

[flow]

 

[STE]

From my understanding relayed information does not transfer death matching rights you must witness the events that you are acting off of or do your own escalation if arriving late to a scene with no active shootout. I do not understand how an IC protocol can allow either a criminal or LEO to shoot off assumptions that all information provided to them off a radio call is correct and transfer death matching rights to them. As seen in the reported party POV he shows up late acts off relayed information starts by shooting the vehicle around the tire area but continues his full spray in to the cabin of the Contender after he had just inserted himself into a situation and immediately opens fire at arrival.

[flow]

Hi,

that is not my understanding of the rules, as that is nowehere noted on the rules itself.

The escalation has been there, as you killed multiple people, commited a series of felonies and that was all witnessed. You were also interacted with when cruisers were pursuing the vehicle down the mountain. You were well aware of everything that was witnessed by us and you were also aware of everything that lead to you being shot at, all with proper IC motives. I do not understand why you now go from "Had no reason to shoot at us" to "Yeah but did you witness it yourself?"? I believe this is a bit ruleplaying here, the rules says nothing of the sorts or restricts it to own eyewitness accounts. Having a TAC full of Deputies with multiple witnesses to your crimes is justification, especially when we are talking about a timeframe of 30 seconds of the crime being commitet, witnessed and my action towards it. It is an IC action of yours which led to an IC action of mine, there is no DM, why you need to try and make it anything other than IC actions and reactions, is beyond me.

 

14. Deathmatching (DM)

Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police.  Players on foot should only be attempted to be hit by a vehicle once with a valid motive. Vehicles cannot be used as weapons in active shootouts unless where unavoidable. Players must be able to explain their reason and provide proof of prior reasoning if requested.  If a player informs you that your VOIP isn't working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands (/vr 1) or use text to deliver your demands and RP.

[pixiejewels]

Refrain from the back and forth, this will be your last warning. 

[Gyromite]

Pending review.

[pixiejewels]

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• John_Wallace (Notified in game) - Please provide extended POV of the scenario if available                
   

• Ace_Butoslav  (Notified in game) - Were you involved in the reported scenario and if so could you please provide POV and your side of the story?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Gyromite GodDamnitKopi & pixiejewels

[flow]

Hi,

 

this is all I have from the situation. 

I believe to have made the correct IC decision based on all the evidence present, there was a helicopter above the scene for quite some time, clearly identifying the idividuals in the contender as being the shooters, that can be heard in my POV as he calls them out, they are were confirmed on the scene, shooting and heavily armed. With the helicopter having an aerial view of the situation, there is no possible mixup, these players were without a doubt identified. Everything I am saying and that is reflected in my POV, is 1:1 proven to be correct in his POV as well, the helicopter is heard right at the start of his POV while he is still engaging other players. They then decide to run from the cruisers that they have identified as chasing them. ICly, there was ample reason to take down the vehicle as they were identified murderers, had evidence on them and were risking obstructing the investigation in their crimes and possibly either evading or getting rid of the evidence. I think it was proven that there were ample IC reasons to open fire, which disqualifies DM, as that would suggest there were not. His and my POV both support the IC knowledge I had to act on them.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by flow

[NotOnlyAce]

11 hours ago, pixiejewels said:

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• John_Wallace (Notified in game) - Please provide extended POV of the scenario if available                
   

• Ace_Butoslav  (Notified in game) - Were you involved in the reported scenario and if so could you please provide POV and your side of the story?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Gyromite GodDamnitKopi & pixiejewels

Ace Butoslav here.

I was no part of this situation and I am very confused why am I asked for response. I have nothing further to add. If you have any questions let me know.

[pixiejewels]

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• Bunkie_Johnson (Notified in game) - Were you involved in the reported scenario and if so could you please provide POV and your side of the story?              

• Timothee_Olsen  (Notified in game) - Were you involved in the reported scenario and if so could you please provide POV and your side of the story?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Gyromite GodDamnitKopi & pixiejewels

[Icarus]

Howdy, Timothee Olsen here, I was in Alpha with Bunkie. We received a call about heavy automatic gunfire fired at dignity village(hole in the wall). As Alpha arrived on scene, we witnessed a massive gunfight going on between two groups.

As most of the ground units were just wrapping up another situation it took about a minute for ground units to arrive. Bunkie and I provided overwatch of the situation and watched as the gunfight ended and suspects began running around. Once enough units were at the mountain, the deputies moved in, this is when we saw the contender drive away with the suspects 

Bunkie was trying to give callouts on the Contender but due to the hectic nature of the scene, it got lost. After being told to clear comms, we continued callouts on the contender. Stating that this contender had occupants directly related to the shootout and who were actively participating in it. Once the contender made it to the railroad tracks shots were taken on it, as the suspects were known to be armed, as well as being suspects in a crime.

After a brief pursuit ensued, the vehicle TC’d and SD alpha went back to the initial scene of the shootout to provide BLS and assistance.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have POV, apologies! Lemme know if you have any further questions!

[Bunkie]

Hello! Yes, I was in the helicopter giving callouts during the entire situation. I unfortunately was not recording and therefore don't have footage. 

 

Myself and @Icarus were in the helicopter as we were needed for a scene before this specific situation. As we were about to land at the station, we got a call from one of our deputies about heavy shots fired above Hole in the Wall on the mountain. As a heli would be a perfect response unit for its speed and overview, we canceled our landing and flew straight over. As we approached, I immediately saw and called out a white Scout with either a dead or injured, and shots still continuing. As I looked to my right, I saw around 3-4 Irish members on foot, a BF400, and a Contender parked near the situation. They were obviously still firing their weapons as I could hear it and so could the other units on the ground. I called out that they were still firing, and once done, heading towards the Contender. 

 

As the Contender began to descend down the mountain, I called it out, but as you can hear over our TAC radio, it was extremely hectic, and they couldn't hear the callouts, hence the order to go radio silent except for the callouts on the Contender, which I was providing. I informed my ground units that it was heading towards them, onto the train tacks, where one of our units began to take tires. As myself, @Icarus, and another ground unit saw, heard, and watched these Irish members with heavy weaponry finish shooting, run towards the truck, then get into the truck fleeing, there was clear communications that these gang members WERE shooting and had confirmation of killing people on the hill, hence the remaining tires of the Contender being taken to slow it down and immobilize it even more than it already was. 

 

We continued to provide callouts on the Contender where the scene eventually ended, across from the entrance to the lumber mill. After that scene was static and we had enough people there for scene security, I flew the helicopter back to the mountainside, and as my rank in the Air Support Division permits, I landed the heli, and myself and @Icarus began to provide BLS on the multiple injured at the original scene as well as finding any deceased.

 

Like I mentioned above, I unfortunately don't have POV as I wasn't recording and the only person asked to save POV was the person who fired at the Contender. 

 

[Gyromite]

REPORT DENIED
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After our deliberations, we’ve concluded that this report will be denied for the following reason(s):

• At the start of Stephen Joyce's footage we can observe him in an active gunfight which ends with him downing and killing an opposing player. As he begins to make his return to his vehicle we can see him pan his camera above him which shows an LEO Helicopter right above him. This can be seen at the 31 second mark in the reporting party's video. While claims that DM rights do not transfer from one character to another is correct, however in an instance such as this with many moving parts and dozens of members of SD involved, one can reasonably assume that the force was justified given the amount of intel available. 

• Timothee Olsen as well as Bunkie Johnson were assisting with a previous call in Air-1. When they were headed back towards Paleto to land, they were informed of heavy machine gun fire being heard near Hole in the Wall. On arrival they witness Stephen Joyce and company in an active shootout, and then relay this information to units on the ground. SD units now had a positive ID on heavily armed individuals that had just taken another person's life, making them an extreme threat. It is within reason for lethal force to be used in a situation as Mr. Olsen and Mr. Johnson had witnessed the reporting party commit an act of murder and flee the scene. 

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This decision is final. Unless instructed to, if you post another player report pertaining to this incident, you may be muted from posting on the forums for a temporary period. If you disagree with the outcome of this report, please file an appeal following the appeal guidelines and format.

Regards,
Gyromite & pixiejewels & GodDammitKopi