Lewis_Langley (8. Possible MG, 13. FRP, 9. NRP)

[Massa T]

Player(s) being reported: Lewis_Langley
Date of interaction reported: 21/MAY/2022
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1653176629

Your character name: Tony_Solicetto
Other player(s) involved: -

Specific rule(s) broken:

13. Fear Roleplay (FRP)

Fear Roleplay is the concept of showing appropriate care and concern to preserve your character's safety and life. We aim for balanced gameplay through this rule, and it may not be representative of real life at times.  If an attacker lowers their weapon to type, victims who were under fear RP remain as so.

 

8. Metagaming (MG)

Metagaming is the act of relaying In-Character (IC) information through any method not considered IC which has the potential to change the current or future roleplay scenarios, or for the potential for the information to be used.  It's also considered metagaming to mix IC and Out-of-Character (OOC) information.

 

9. Non-Roleplay (Non-RP)

Non-Roleplay behavior is considered as actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay. It's difficult to interpret or understand what good roleplay can be sometimes, and we aim to steer players in the direction we want them to go through our server rules. Players are welcome to speak to staff for guidance in regard to roleplay. Some examples (not exhaustive) of Non-RP:

How did the player break the rule(s)?  (300 words maximum)\
Two days ago I had a search warrant out for my character Tony_Solicetto for reasons to which SD found me using their tracing feature. They found a .50 on me which led to them seeking a warrant to raid the place which they did and successfully found my lab. I decided after having a conversation in the vehicle with Garret_Groyce to kidnap him and do whatever I can to torture him. I had planned this now for a whole day, came in game and waited for 2hours to find Groyce. I ended up seeing the Commissioner parachuting out of a helicopter/plane in the middle of Paleto so I took it as a golden ticket and used him as means to get Groyce alone. He got the transmission to Groyce through his radio and other means which was a whole total of 3 minutes. I found it strange that someone driving a car they've never driven before to be pulled over for their "lights" as I've never ever had this enforced. Now I know it's a good enough reason to pull me over, but the positioning of his vehicle and the readiness of everything was a little to much for me therefore I thought there was a breach of possible metagaming.

Now the Fear RP and NRP folds out when he was in my trunk, multiple times I had pulled out my weapon to aim at him and shut him up and he just refused to follow demands. He kept tapping and not fearing I would simply kill him or do something worse. We ended up in a pursuit with the commissioner in my trunk and cops ramming me and what not, nothing of this was remotely RP and totally unrealistic. I had no chance to go through with my RP but they had the chance to do all this fancy RP with interrogation, finding out extra info, getting people down at PD to get interrogated as well for possible involvement. They had DOC warden there thinking she was involved, They all got the chance to RP and I couldn't over unrealistic actions. I believe this could have added some spice to the crim side for any groups as I would have been a wanted man for god knows how long. You get the point.

Evidence of rule breach

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Tony Solicetto
Fixed the positioning of the text + added another POV that was done uploading.

[Lewis]

Hey,

I have not got much to add to this. I followed the RP as best as I could and showed fear. I spoke in the trunk when he was driving, but still showed as much fear as I could during the RP, following the demands, getting into the trunk etcetera. Unsure how one is going to drive at high speed and aim a gun at someone in the trunk at the same time, but that's not an issue for me.

 I had no communication with SD or PD whatsoever during the situation and the traffic stop was as much coincidence that me parachuting into the hands of the reporting party was, in fact, the party I was parachuting with are neither in PD or SD. 

I was tabbing out and in out of the game to respond to a discord conversation unrelated to this situation as I still have a responsibility to ECRP as a Head Admin, and was speaking to a fellow Head Admin. 

I have no recorded footage as I wasn't aware that this would be a player report, and I'm unsure whether SD or PD involved has any footage.

I have nothing further to add, I believe Jon McCornish or Noah Carlile (both staff) can explain their side from SD.
 (edited)
 

[Lewis]

@Kazjii@Kraahplease provide your input!

[Osborn]

3 minutes ago, Lewis said:

Hey,

I have not got much to add to this. I followed the RP as best as I could and showed fear. I spoke in the trunk when he was driving, but still showed as much fear as I could during the RP, following the demands, getting into the trunk etcetera. Unsure how one is going to drive at high speed and aim a gun at someone in the trunk at the same time, but that's not an issue for me.

 I had no communication with SD or PD whatsoever during the situation and the traffic stop was as much coincidence that me parachuting into the hands of the reporting party was, in fact, the party I was parachuting with are neither in PD or SD. 

I was tabbing out and in out of the game to respond to a discord conversation unrelated to this situation as I still have a responsibility to ECRP as a Head Admin, and was speaking to a fellow Head Admin. 

I have no recorded footage as I wasn't aware that this would be a player report, and I'm unsure whether SD or PD involved has any footage.

I have nothing further to add, I believe Jon McCornish or Noah Carlile (both staff) can explain their side from SD.
 (edited)
 

I can confirm that he was speaking to me on a discord call for an admin related reason, and I was not online on the server at the time.

[Massa T]

36 minutes ago, Lewis said:

Hey,

I have not got much to add to this. I followed the RP as best as I could and showed fear. I spoke in the trunk when he was driving, but still showed as much fear as I could during the RP, following the demands, getting into the trunk etcetera. Unsure how one is going to drive at high speed and aim a gun at someone in the trunk at the same time, but that's not an issue for me.
 

Never did I mention saying that I was pointing while driving, your RP while driving was fine and completely realistic. It was when I had to point the gun two times at you(this being the 3rd now) in order to get you to fear and shut up.. That's the FRP I am talking about.

You are telling me the commissioner of San Andreas didn't fear of losing his life when I kept pointing a .50 at you when the Deputies moved away? You had no regards of it. You might as well had /s I'm in the trunk.  I could have killed him in my trunk as I had a silencer and closed windows and no one would even notice... Maybe a muffled sound when the shot went off but yeah. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Tony Solicetto

[Kraah]

I had just logged in and joined with Carlile just a few minutes before the interaction, we drove to North store to get me some water. As we were leaving the store Carlile spotted the car coming up the freeway with no lights on and called it out. We went for the vehicle for that simple reason, when we spotted the vehicle without light we were to far to even see ID's so it was pretty much just dumb luck. When we had him pulled over we called extra units in following the tapping from the trunk. Just to be clear, we did not decide to go for him when we were in the median, we started rolling up towards him because he was spotted down the road with no lights and moved to the median to intercept.

Unfortunately I don't have any recording since I was made aware around 1 hour after.

[Kazjii]

Hello! I’m a little bit confused as to why I was not made aware of this situation being of concern or worry until nearly a whole hour after the situation occurred. Anywho, I will outline the situation below and reasoning behind all concerns from the player.

 

Reason for stop would be because player had no lights on - don’t think I need to explain further as to why we pulled him over. I’m not sure how this translates to using OOC information to my IC advantage. Not to mention, nothing has happened on shift for a while, any action is good action - pulling over a car going 2 km/h over the limit is how we resolve our boredom in hopes of encountering some other RP than driving around. And just in case it’s mentioned or brought up, Tony Solicetto is a known felon, back up was called for obvious reasons.

 

Fear RP claim : I’m not one to justify others actions but light tapping on the trunk when no gun was being pointed at the time while surrounded by armed deputies. Not to mention, further in on the scene, the trunk is separate from the driving cabin, I do not recall seeing a connecting point where pointing a gun would make sense due to a physical barrier being in the way. This is just recall, I cannot remember for certain.

 

As far as not letting you RP, you chose to kidnap arguably one of the most important characters in ECRP - post situational effects of course will be heightened. You will also notice that I offer some “wiggle room” for the player to get out as I am very against abruptly ending situations for crims. If you are going to sit in DOC for hours, I much rather you have fun with joyriding, it provides RP for us as well. You however locked yourself in dignity village and the situation ended when you are blocked in. I’m not sure if you rather be hard stopped and arrested without a chase, but I do apologize for at least offering a bit of fun before you spend time in DOC. The ramming that was experienced was not in the slightest intentional - units requested to PIT but were very soon shut down due to the belief someone may be in the trunk since it was not yet confirmed.

 

I was not aware of a report being made until an hour or so after this happened, I don’t have any footage.

 

**Just noticed he opened the back compartment to aim the gun, but nevertheless was surrounded by armed deputies.

[Dqniel]

Thank you for submitting this player report! 

I would like to preface this conclusion by thanking everyone for remaining patient as well as delivering timely responses which showcased their side and rationale for their actions during this situation. After taking all statements into account as well as collaborating with fellow staff members, I have come to the decision to deny this report.

With the above stated i would like to use this opportunity to break down the proposed rulebreaks and explain the rationale for the denial. 

 

1. Metagaming

There is nothing indicating a breach of metagaming rules based on the provided evidence. It goes without saying but the chances of encountering a law enforcement officer is pretty high as they frequently patrol and sit next to highways with the purpose of enforcing road laws; in the context of this situation, you were not only above the speed limit but also driving without lights which is a sufficient reason for the two deputies in the sheriff kamacho to pull you over without being subjected to claims of metagaming. This is even more reaffirmed when the two deputies stated in this player report that their positioning initially was purely coincidental and the reasoning for the traffic stop was due to the lack of lights, which based on the circumstances of this situation is something we are far more inclined to believe given the zero indication of metagaming throughout this player report. 

 

2. Fear Roleplay

There is nothing indicating a breach of Fear Roleplay rules. It goes without saying but this rule primarily applies to scenarios in which a player is faced with an extremely dangerous situation to the point that they could not make any action for themselves without their life being ended at will. In the context of this situation we feel that Lewis tapping and banging the trunk is a completely sensible option to save his own life, one that many players would arguably resort to would they have the knowledge that their kidnapper is being stopped by sheriff deputies (as indicated by the lights and sirens) and later on hearing them walk up to the vehicle. One could argue that if Lewis did not take advantage of this opportunity for his own benefit, which in this case was escaping his kidnapper and saving his own life, it would undoubtedly increase the risk of him being harmed so why shouldn’t he bide his time and yell for help at the exact moment of his kidnapper being stopped and surrounded by sheriff deputies in a traffic stop? Not everything in roleplay can be planned to perfection, this is unfortunately a contingency which did not go in the direction that you would have wanted, however that does not make it a breach of our rules especially within this context - Lewis acted sensibly and cautiously, bided his time and utilized the perfect opportunity to attempt to escape, one that ultimately paid off. 

 

3. Non Roleplay

In regards to the claims of ramming from the law enforcement officers involved - under normal circumstances I would have completely agreed with you that being rammed several times while having a person in the back of your trunk is quite unrealistic and diminishing towards roleplay however there wasn’t any purposeful and malicious ramming being done. In total there were two collisions with the law enforcement officers involved in chasing you, once as you drove through the fence at dignity village and reversed back into a cruiser and once as you got cut off at the entrance of dignity and the law enforcement officer slightly collides with the back of your vehicle as he is attempting to brake/stop. I do not agree with the notion that these collisions were purposeful and malicious - framing it as such does not do the other party any justice, even more so when you consider that one of the collisions was caused by you reversing. 

Moreover, It is also worth mentioning that the reasoning for kidnapping Lewis was questionable from the very start. In our rules, it states that players are allowed to kidnap or take other players hostage within the context of reasonable escalation. There was not only a lack of escalation but you also claimed that the sole reason for kidnapping Lewis during this situation was to use him as means of leverage to get access to another player, which doesn’t necessarily align with our rules. With this stated it could be argued that you are not the only one who felt negatively affected by this roleplay. 

 

With the above points made, i feel there are no rulebreaks taking place during this situation and therefore the player report will be denied. 

This player report is rejected and archived.