Metagaming | ID98 [Paulo_Witherfork] - ID77 [Brayton_Williams]

[Sarahh]

Player(s) being reported: 77. 98
Date of interaction reported: 17/05/2022.
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1652798888

Your character name: Sarah Shao.
Other player(s) involved: Jennifer Sinclair

Specific rule(s) broken:
Metagaming.

How did the player break the rule(s)? (300 words maximum)
so we were being pulled over by a cruiser where they were transporting a vehicle from sea labs area we so happened to get pulled over but our guns were located on our backs, after the first officer took my license and went back to his cruiser, you then see ID 98 come to the vehicle in first person view and looking in to the vehicle and then running off saying driver has a gun(1:05) he didnt do any kind of RP to see whether or not that he would be able to see that the gun is visible for himself, as for myself and my passenger the gun was on our backs, and there was no RP prior to seeing if guns were visible, he literally left the cruiser calling our guns out, also to mention the fact that we were just coming from sea labs which was a paused situation so maybe they could of seen our guns from that.

Evidence of rule breach:
 

 

[Skiperz]

Pending review

[Skiperz]

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• @Brayton Williams - Brayton_Williams (ID 77) - Please shed light on to how you came in contact with the reporting party in first place and why they were picked to be pulled over. We are also interested in the sequence of events from the second you identified them as members of said gang and why such approach was taken. Were you aware or made aware by the reporting party that they were involved in a paused situation? And what was your business by the catfish view entrance. Provide any evidence available to support your statement

• @Paulo - Paulo_Witherfork (ID 98) - From your perspective, please explain to why you have taken such approach and how you were able to come to the discovery of the weapon in their possession. As the reporting party claimed that they were in a paused situation, what was your business near their area and did you come across them during said situation? Please provide any evidence available to support your statement.

• @Sarahh - Sarah_Shao (ID 49) - You mentioned that you were in a paused situation and yet just made a bold accusation of them exploiting that to their advantage and to pull you over; do you have any proof of them crossing roads with you through that situation? As it seems they had a situation of their own. We also need extended footage of what happened beforehand and through the paused situation.

• @Howey860 - Jennifer_Sinclain (ID 22) - Throughout the situation, you used your faction chat and we are interested in to why you've decided to send such message, what were you aiming to gain from it and why did you think it was appropriate to relay such thing over to your ally over an OOC channel?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Skiperz & Jayyy

[Sarahh]

Hallo this is Sarah_Shao (ID 49), thanks Skiperz for handlling this report

I don't have proof when the situation was paused, however, it was Moderator Yputi that handled the situation because there was a body that had vanished. Once the situation was over, we left the area one minute later and then ran into all of these SD officers. From then on, everything is evident in the video that I provided.

The reason why I am reporting is how did the officer know about the guns when there was no guns in our screen. There was no attempt in roleplaying it asking with /me & /do commands. It all could have happened because of a visual bug and used it in favour against us.

[Silent]

Hi, Brayton Williams here and thank you to the staff taking the report.

 

So initially, myself and a couple other deputies were on scene on the entry road to sea labs from which a warrener with one wheel evaded us from Braddocks. The chase came to a conclusion on Catfish View. As we was leaving Catfish view with our 10-15 and the vehicle that evaded from us, a large convoy of around 8-9 Shenzen Dragon affiliated vehicles left Sealabs. Now we did not know there was a paused RP scenario within the actual lab itself, nor did we know that there was a large amount of Shenzen vehicles inside of sealabs until they left the lab as we was leaving.  I was asked over the radio to pull over the elegy as it had supposedly performed a PIT on the warrener from the scene we was there for. Granted the vehicle had three wheels so could've been desynced. I conducted the traffic stop as normal. I was alerted that the driver was in possession of a firearm over our radio before conducting the traffic stop. The reporting party wanted the person who initially discovered the firearm to save POV. I had identified them as members of the Shenzen dragons due to being told of their affiliation numerous times on different scenes. their masks being their most notable form of identification. I only conducted the traffic stop in the way I did as I was advised to one pull over the Elegy Retro custom ( the only in that shenzen convoy) and to wait for additional units, which I did.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Brayton Williams

[Paulo]

Howdy, Paulo here. 

Unfortunately I have no POV recording from this scenario to share, however I do have a fairly clear recollection. The situation started after reports came from a deputy reported the vehicle attempting to collide with an escort vehicle which the LSSD had apprehended from an unrelated situation which started at a shootout at Braddox Farm. After backup arrived at the traffic stop, two units including myself and the initiating unit approached the vehicle. After clearly identifying a firearm on the driver person I switched to a 1st person perspective to ensure this was in realistic sight of my character which it was. This information was then relayed to units from both LSSD and LSPD due to the gang affiliation. I then re approached the vehicle and double checked that the firearm was clearly visible before we proceeded to detain the vehicle's occupants. It's my understanding that any weapon that's in the person's inventory and visible on their person, is to be considered ICly visible, especially if the person isn't wearing any item of clothing which could be considered appropriate to conceal the firearm or alternatively  the person has performed additional rp to conceal the weapon on their person.

In the POV we can see that to reporting party not only has the firearm in their inventory, but also equipped in their weapons holster. A .50 firearm is approximately 11 inches in length and 6 in height. This alongside the attire which the reporting party is currently wearing would make it almost impossible to conceal without additional RP.

If this was an issue regarding a visual bug with is fairly common, I struggle to see why the reporting party failed to raise this concern after realizing that I had reported the firearm being in possession of the driver.

Regarding the point raised about leaving a paused situation, this was never mention to myself until this report. I was never PM'ed by any players in or relating to the reporting party or mention in faction chat by other members of the LSSD. It's worth mentioning that Brayton Williams was under the instruction from my unit to perform the traffic stop as "Routine" until backup from the LSPD had arrived due to the gang affiliation of the vehicle.

Thank you for reading my response, if you require any further expansion or detail please don't hesitate to ask.

Paulo.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Paulo

[Sarahh]

Hallo once again, I am sorry for creating this back and forth, however, I must clear some things out:

We had PMd you and asked SD members to tell you to save your point of view in faction chat but you didn't save anything because you know there was no gun seen there.

If you are talking about the gun in my inventory, it is there but because of the slot that it is in, it's in the backside which you can never see if I am sitting inside of the car, the only way of seeing the firearm is if I get out of the car, you can try it in-game. From what I see, you were just abusing the bug that happens to many people, this just proves my words as same situation happened to another player and there is even a documented forum report about it:

 

[Paulo]

Howdy, I just want to address the previous statement made by the reporting party...
 

48 minutes ago, Sarahh said:

We had PMd you and asked SD members to tell you to save your point of view in faction chat but you didn't save anything because you know there was no gun seen there.

 

You are correct in saying that I was asked to save my POV by Brayton following this situation however you're psychic instincts are incorrect. As with most of the ECRP community at this moment, my shadowplay software is very temperamental and rarely recording at the moment. It's naive of you to assume that just because I don't have POV on hand, I must have surely broken the server rules. Chat logs will confirm that I did state in our faction chat that I wasn't running any at the time of the incident as I didn't think it would have been necessary. However, I have taken the liberty of taking some screenshots of a .50 firearm being visible on the backs of drivers in sports cars to combat your accusations. 





 As you can see from both Screenshots, the firearm is clearly visible in both photos from both a 1st and 3rd person perspective and isn't bugged in anyway. The firearm was equipped in the exact same slot that you had yours in during the time of the reported incident. Just to reiterate the point made in my previous statement, your character wasn't wearing any baggy or loose fitting clothes either. A .50 firearm is 11 inches in length and 6 inches height, concealing this weapon on your person's body given their current attire and without any additional RP would in itself be unrealistic and an unlikely prospect.
 

58 minutes ago, Sarahh said:

If you are talking about the gun in my inventory, it is there but because of the slot that it is in, it's in the backside which you can never see if I am sitting inside of the car, the only way of seeing the firearm is if I get out of the car, you can try it in-game. From what I see, you were just abusing the bug that happens to many people, this just proves my words as same situation happened to another player and there is even a documented forum report about it:

 

This paragraph again is just simply incorrect and irrelevant. There is a known visual bug whereby the firearm can appear to be in the hands of a vehicle occupant and this is well known to the LSSD. This random conversation which you've posted as "proof" isn't relating to our traffic stop. The gun in our situation was located on your characters waist, not your hands. If you're still struggling to accept the fact that a gun was clear on your person, I invite you to re-equip your gun, sit in your elergy and ask your friends if they can see it or not.

Thanks again for taking the time to read my response.

Paulo
 

[Howey860]

Hello there ID 22 here The reason why I said that in faction chat is because the player did not approach the situation professionally and rather came to a strange decision, hence why a report was made. As always, the mentality should be roleplay now, report later, and that's exactly what we did in that situation. 

With all due respect, if it was a real situation a cop wouldn't be able to just come up to a window like that and see a gun... a seat has padding if my gun  or the drivers gun is on there back it would be pressed in against the chair and our back making it realistically hard to see, i think in this case if they had seen it and as they had seen where we came from the correct sort of RP should have been conducted with a /do.  We could have had it hidden somewhere in the car and the way you have approached us without doing any /Do seems to degrade the server's overall heavy rp quality. This is not how you should approach players and suddenly come with a decision of your own beliefs. We need our chance to do our part. The gun however wasn't hidden in the car, but again, this is not a professional way to approach a player, especially as a member of a highly respected faction with expected superior rp give and take sequences.

There's no such thing known as if you see it on me, then you see it. I believe your statement only becomes diligent when the person is in a standing stance, out of the car. You didn't ask if there would be a firearm on the player over /Do. Lets say the driver didn't have a firearm on her and it was just a visual bug, you still would have to ask in /Do to confirm that the player has a gun or not or if it's hidden in the car, then settle it over OOC chat for extensive proof. The purpose of reports is to reprimand players over the rules and roleplay fundamentals such as the necessity to use /Me and /Do at all times to make the roleplay experience for everyone nice and easy, which you did not care to do. I hope you can understand my point of view. 
 

[Paulo]

Hello,

Just to respond to the several points made in this statement: 
 

1 hour ago, Howey860 said:

Hello there ID 22 here The reason why I said that in faction chat is because the player did not approach the situation professionally and rather came to a strange decision, hence why a report was made. As always, the mentality should be roleplay now, report later, and that's exactly what we did in that situation. 

- This situation was approached professionally from both an IC and OOC standpoint. Due to the gang affiliation of the vehicle and large number of members present in the nearby area we called for backup and approached the vehicle with two deputies instead of the usual one to ensure our personal safety in this situation. The arrest wasn't conducted until the presence of PD for extra precaution.
From an OOC standpoint, I'd ensured that the firearm was realistically visible by utilizing both 1st and 3rd person view and as is highlighted by the screenshots in my previous response there's nothing to suggest why the gun shouldn't be visible. 

1 hour ago, Howey860 said:

 

With all due respect, if it was a real situation a cop wouldn't be able to just come up to a window like that and see a gun... a seat has padding if my gun  or the drivers gun is on there back it would be pressed in against the chair and our back making it realistically hard to see, i think in this case if they had seen it and as they had seen where we came from the correct sort of RP should have been conducted with a /do.  We could have had it hidden somewhere in the car and the way you have approached us without doing any /Do seems to degrade the server's overall heavy rp quality. This is not how you should approach players and suddenly come with a decision of your own beliefs. We need our chance to do our part. The gun however wasn't hidden in the car, but again, this is not a professional way to approach a player, especially as a member of a highly respected faction with expected superior rp give and take sequences.

 

In a real situation, if someone has a pistol in their holster as the driver clearly did in her own POV there would be no reason why it wouldn't be visible. Unless you've rped sitting completely upright and pressing yourself into the seat to sink the gun into the padding, a gun of that size would be in clear view. The use of /do isn't necessary in this scenario, as has been highlighted to myself by several members of senior staff, if an object is in a players inventory and in view of your character then it's considered to be visible. If you wanted to rp hiding the gun inside the vehicle then you're more than welcome to do so but the gun would then have to be transferred from your player inventory to the vehicle. It's unfair to say that my actions are "Degrading" to the servers roleplay standards when neither of you attempted to perform any RP in the slightest to conceal the weapon. 
The decision and action I took wasn't based on "my own beliefs", it was based on the grounds that you had a clearly visible firearm on your person. You had your chance to do your part when we initiated the traffic stop, if you wished to RP hiding the gun in the car then you were more than welcome to do so, however you didn't. 

 

1 hour ago, Howey860 said:

There's no such thing known as if you see it on me, then you see it. I believe your statement only becomes diligent when the person is in a standing stance, out of the car. You didn't ask if there would be a firearm on the player over /Do. Lets say the driver didn't have a firearm on her and it was just a visual bug, you still would have to ask in /Do to confirm that the player has a gun or not or if it's hidden in the car, then settle it over OOC chat for extensive proof. The purpose of reports is to reprimand players over the rules and roleplay fundamentals such as the necessity to use /Me and /Do at all times to make the roleplay experience for everyone nice and easy, which you did not care to do. I hope you can understand my point of view. 
 

You're now moving into hypothetical situations, saying that the gun may have had a visual bug is totally irrelevant considering it wasn't in the players hand and we've already established that the driver had it in their possession. If it were a visual bug then you're more than welcome to create a report IG to pause the action roleplay. Debating whether a gun is visible on your person in OOC chat during active roleplay, I don't believe to be the most effective course of action when in those situations. My actions were based off the current server rules and what was presented to my character. 
I don't believe this reported was made with the intention of educating myself, I feel it was made with a vindictive nature over getting caught. I can somewhat understand your perspective of this situation and yes there is always more room for detailed roleplay from all sides of the community but in this scenario my actions were within the rules.

Many Thanks, Paulo

[Skiperz]

The back and forth won't be tolerated, limit your responses to our questions and any overstepping will result in a punishment by the end of this report review

[Skiperz]

REPORT DENIED
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After our deliberations, we’ve concluded that this report will be denied for the following reason(s):

• As explained and tested, if they look closer through specific angels they can spot the weapon on your back in some cars and in the end, the seat padding per claimed is not a sponge to cover the whole pistol up. The mentioned pistol, 0.50, is a bulky one for both aspects, In game and IRL and thus it makes sense for it to stick like a sore thumb. This is the reason we have vehicle inventory, bags & briefcases for you to conceal your items in; it's your choice of approach.
  
  As much as I understand that it would have been much better if approached with RP, but a sighting of a thing is enough to act on it. However, if it was a bug as you mentioned, it'd have been more appropriate to inform the reported party over a PM or in /b (respectfully of course) that there is no weapon in the inventory or it is a visual bug instead of utilizing faction chat.
  
  Due to the lack of evidence for the bold claim of abusing the paused situation, this will have to be denied as you have no proof that they saw you or even came across you in said paused situation. Moreover, this paused situation has not directly affected you or anything at all and if you, in the future, feel that the paused situation has affected the outcome of another RP,  then please submit a report for the handling moderator to deal with it.

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This decision is final. Unless instructed to, if you post another player report pertaining to this incident, you may be muted from posting on the forums for a temporary period. If you disagree with the outcome of this report, please file an appeal following the appeal guidelines and format.

Regards,
Skiperz & Jayyy