Frank_Xing, Jonas_Fog, George_Moore, Ian_Connor, Andrej-Krillin, Pasha_Xiao (Deathmatch, Non-Roleplay, Metagaming)

[kris giggs]

Player(s) being reported: 48, 20, 26, 9, 46, 23
Date of interaction reported: 11th of May, 2022
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1652262734
 
Your character name: Kris Davis
Other player(s) involved: Jasmin Williams, Ace Wilson, Brian Laurie, Deandre King
 
Specific rule(s) broken:
Non-Roleplay (NRP)
Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay.
Deathmatch (DM)
Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without a proper IC motive and interaction.
Metagaming (MG)
Metagaming is the act of relaying IC information through any method not considered IC that has the potential to change current or future roleplay scenarios or using that information. 
 
How did the player break the rule(s)? 

A member of Shenzen, Jennifer Sinclar spotted our group GBK operating a chop shop. About ten minutes later Frank Xing got out of his faction colors and joined another group that have a name (as they introduced themselves) and attacked us together. 

This is first and foremost in my opinion a breach of backup rule as two gangs got together to attack another one. 

This is second of all in my opinion very poor roleplay from the leader of a carter to risk his life with whats basically strangers that came back to the city two days ago and push a gang that until yesterday was helping them. 

I believe that the actions shown in the video with no reasoning or escalation possible, as our entire gang was NLRd the day before, to be evidence of a group of players that do not take roleplay as serious as I do. I feel that the staff team needs to intervene and enforce a higher roleplay standard considering the actions showcased in the video.

I'd also like to ask if all of the people involved were already connected to the server of if they were invited to come for online for this attack. 

In the end please evaluate risk vs reward to determine if this was a realistic way in which a person that immerses themselves into their character would act. They risked the life of a carter leader and 600k worth of guns to take a chop worth 100k. I think it's plain to see for anyone watching the video. "hends hends hends" was the only roleplay provided to a group of people prior to killing them. 

 
Evidence of rule breach:
https://streamable.com/avfx71

Edited May 11, 2022 by kris giggs

[Jellay]

This report is pending review. 

[Jellay]

Hello,

Could the following players please explain their side of the story in as much detail as possible;

48 - Jonas_Fog
26 - Frank_Xing
9 - Pasha_Xiao
46 - Ian_Connor
23 - George_Moore
20 - Andrej-Krillin

 

- Senior Moderator Jellay

[sickyy]

Hello, Frank_Xing (ID 26) here. Thank you moderator Jellay for handling this report.

To begin with, I‘ll give better context. Tensions between GBK and Shenzhen Dragons had been rising the past days. Two days ago, we saw a big convoy of vehicles entering Mount Gordo. This got called out and my members went to the location to find GBK members hiding around drop location, this is when one of my members, pre-trial Lance_Slash was given demands and then injured by GBK at the drop location (I don‘t have pov of it, however, it was part of this situation and unix timestamp of this situation can be checked to find the damage logs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGgY-TzOwU&ab_channel=MedAmineJH) When this happened, another group of people entered the area and the fight against them and GBK began. After this situation, no GBK members contacted me or any of my gang members regarding this incident.

Furthermore, yesterday we had two situations with shots exchanged between GBK. One was inside of braddocks around day/evening time and the next one was during night time when we had a lysergic acid shipment coming to Sea Lab. When my members entered the lab and began opening the shipment, two people in GBK outfits began shooting my members, however, they ended up dying.

With all these past events, I had plenty of IC reasoning to engage on GBK‘s faction members. We were just minding our business and driving around when one of our members called out that GBK has a chopshop setup. During that time I was debating whether we should hit it, however, remembering the recent past events and the fact that their command didn‘t even contact us regarding any of these past situations, I decided to hit the chopshop out of colors. This is when I called everyone that was on my radio frequency to gather around Forum Drive and get different outfits. Players Ian_Connor and Andrej_Krilin are good friends of mine and the past few days they‘ve been hanging with Shenzhen Dragons and making money together whether it would be cooking in static labs or chopping. In regard to George_Moore being part of it, me and George were talking about making an illegal shipment when I told him that we need to meet in person to discuss the details, whenever he arrived, I was waiting for the rest of my members to arrive when I told him that I‘ll need to post-pone it as we are hitting GBK‘s chopshop out of colors to which he said that he would like to be part of it. He did not call any of his other members to assist him, he ended up being part of the situation naturally.

Once everyone arrived and we came up with the plan, we decided to engage. This is when demands were given and shots were only opened on members of GBK whenever they started pointing their guns at us. There was only 4 members of GBK at the chopshop and 6 of us with heavy weapons entering it, therefore, stating that I risked my life for no reason rather than a shootout is extremely poor because not only we were outnumbering them, they were heavily outgunned as well. As a matter of fact, it was poor IC decision making with them not complying with the demands and opening fire on us and, a result of that, people, who happened to be inside of the chopshop, died. I have no clue why are you stating that we inserted with $600‘000 worth of guns to take a chop worth 100k when it is complete exaggeration from your part because this information is false.

We engaged because of the rising tensions between the organizations as well as the fact that we found a chopshop being operated. It costs around $230’000 stock price to setup the chopshop, making the entire hit high reward. I have no comprehension why the reporting party is saying that I risked my own life because not only we outnumbered the reporting party but also had a more superior weaponry and we caught them off-guard. Not a single person from our side got injured.

I do not appreciate the reporting part calling us a clap crew and stating that all of the people who happened to be part of the hit were invited to come for „rp opps“. All of the people were online several hours before the hit even happened, therefore I have no idea why is this even being brought up.

[alexalex303]

Hello, I was directly involved in all of the incidents mentioned other than the Sea Lab incident.

"To begin with, I‘ll give better context. Tensions between GBK and Shenzhen Dragons had been rising the past days. Two days ago, we saw a big convoy of vehicles entering Mount Gordo. This got called out and my members went to the location to find GBK members hiding around drop location, this is when one of my members, pre-trial Lance_Slash was given demands and then injured by GBK at the drop location (I don‘t have pov of it, however, it was part of this situation and unix timestamp of this situation can be checked to find the damage logs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGgY-TzOwU&ab_channel=MedAmineJH) When this happened, another group of people entered the area and the fight against them and GBK began. After this situation, no GBK members contacted me or any of my gang members regarding this incident."

In this incident, Shenzen showed up with the same group of players present in this report, I know for a fact that Ian Connor was the first person that died in that fight, and he was also present in this reported incident. The situation was discussed with a member of High Command in your gang, Jonathan Wellers on the scene. It could not have been brought up later because the New Life Rule was brought into effect, all of us dying in that situation. However, I find it very disagreeable for you to show up to a drop of a gang that you are friendly with, with fog, have fog fight us and then claim that as the tensions rising.

"One was inside of braddocks around day/evening time"

The incident inside Braddocks was a person with Shenzen failing to identify and shooting first. However, this was discussed and made good on scene, once again, with Shenzen High Command, Jonathan Wellers.

"When my members entered the lab and began opening the shipment, two people in GBK outfits began shooting my members, however, they ended up dying."

As far as I know this was not us, and if they died completely, that would once again subject them to New Life Rule.

I feel that the New Life Rule is being disregarded here and situations in which people died are referenced to justify further aggression. If that is the case then we will forever be attacked by Shenzen for the same incident? When does the conflict end? If not with our deaths?

 

 

[sickyy]

Just to clarify, Jonathan Wellers is not part of my faction's High Command.

"In this incident, Shenzen showed up with the same group of players present in this report, I know for a fact that Ian Connor was the first person that died in that fight, and he was also present in this reported incident. The situation was discussed with a member of High Command in your gang, Jonathan Wellers on the scene. It could not have been brought up later because the New Life Rule was brought into effect, all of us dying in that situation. However, I find it very disagreeable for you to show up to a drop of a gang that you are friendly with, with fog, have fog fight us and then claim that as the tensions rising."

We only inserted there because we saw a big convoy of people entering the area and we never knew who are we going to find there before entering, I never knew that Ian Connor was part of that situation as well as the other group of people until I saw them, we were never on the same radio frequency and we also never had prior interaction with them. As soon as Lance got injured, my people fled the area without firing a single shot. I never got told that it was a misunderstanding ICly, same with braddocks situation. I was acting on what my members had told to me ICly.

In terms of NLR rule, my members left before the shootout had ended, therefore we didn't think much ofa NLR rule as we simply did not know who came out on top.

From now, I will refrain from unnecessary back and forth, thanks!

[Andrej_Krilin]

Hello, Andrej_Krilin ID 20 here. Thank you moderator Jellay for handling this report.

Frank Xing said everything that was needed to be said, but I'd like to add something. Firstly I would like to say that me and my friend Ian_Connor is not in any group like you said, we are friends who rolls together. Secondly i'd like to mention that me and Ian have been rolling with Shenzen for few days. And lastly, alexalex303 said "However, I find it very disagreeable for you to show up to a drop of a gang that you are friendly with, with fog, have fog fight us and then claim that as the tensions rising", this is not fog, do not even mention that name, none of fog is playing except me.

Kris Giggs said this as well :"In the end please evaluate risk vs reward to determine if this was a realistic way in which a person that immerses themselves into their character would act. They risked the life of a carter leader and 600k worth of guns to take a chop worth 100k. I think it's plain to see for anyone watching the video. "hends hends hends" was the only roleplay provided to a group of people prior to killing them." I will help you out with the math Kris. In the POV, I see maximum 5 heavies, lets say stock prices are 45k each per heavy gun. 45,000x5 is 225,000 so lets make it 300,000 for example. Chop shop is not worth 100k as well, only toolbox is 150k + other tools are at least 50k so it makes 200k. I think risking 300k to get 200k is a preety high reward.

That is everything from me, thanks for your time. Feel free to ask any question I will answer.  

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Andrej_Krilin

[Jorge Compass]

Hello, (23) George Moore here and thank you for taking this report.

Firstly, I would like to give my point of view leading up to the events that are being reported. I was driving around my defiler, where I saw Jenifer Sinclair in the parking lot. I went up to her and asked if she could tell Frank to turn his phone on as I wanted to order ammo. Frank picked up the phone and after I told him about what I was ringing him for, he told me to come meet him in person. Although I am unsure what happened in between the point of me leaving parking, and arriving at Frank, he told me that we need to postpone our discussion due to the fact that members of Shenzhen were planning on hitting GBK’s chop shop. Since I already had weapons on me, I hopped inside of one of the vehicles and we went to the chop shop. During this, I ensured to switch off freq and not call any additional backup. In addition, I would now like to analyze and debunk each of the rule breaks that have been accused. Starting off with NRP, I do not believe this was an unrealistic attack. During the situation, I ensured to weigh risk vs reward, in this scenario I believe the reward was very valuable being an entire chop shop. Furthermore, I will now continue to the DM's claim. In the evidence provided by Kris Davis which is the POV of Frank_Xing you can see that ID 37 starts pointing their weapon at us. As a result, myself and Frank opened fire, killing him almost instantly. I understand that demands do not = deathmatching rights, which is why I did not open fire until I felt like my character's life was at risk due to the on-going threat (active shots and guns being pointed).

In regards to the Metagaming accusation, I just got back from College at around 10:30 AM GMT. I logged on and began driving around on my defiler, also checking binds to see if anybody was with me. After 10 minutes or so, I drove back to the parking lot where I saw JJ Sinclair, and I asked her to tell Frank to turn his phone on. (This point on is explained in my first paragraph, so I will not repeat)

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Jorge Compass

[kris giggs]

2 hours ago, Andrej_Krilin said:

"However, I find it very disagreeable for you to show up to a drop of a gang that you are friendly with, with fog, have fog fight us and then claim that as the tensions rising", this is not fog, do not even mention that name, none of fog is playing except me.

Just for context for the administrators reviewing the forum report - you mention fog in plural by saying 'we fog' in a fight that is being reported for similar reasons. How do you reconcile saying that nobody from fog is playing but you are seen and heard saying 'we fog' just 2 hours later in a separate fight as highlighted in the forum report below? Who is we in that context?

 

[iaNc]

Hello, Ian Connor here.

First of all i want to appreciate staff members for taking their time solving this report. So last couple of days I was hanging around with Frank and his faction, together we were making money from chop shop, labs and etc. I have known Frank for around two years, he was one of the first people that I ever RPd with and we were playing around 2020 April together. I met Frank with Andrej in a static laboratory and we were baking for a while, we were staying in same radio frequency as Shenzhens as I have interest in joining the faction. After some time, we left, did a break, and were chilling until we heard that Shenzhen Dragons were making plans to hit GBK's chopshop, therefore we all met up. We knew that we gonna make way more money than just cooking in laboratory.

So we both came in meeting spot, we discussed with others how we gonna approach chop shop, and we moved to that area. I came from the back and I wasnt shooting until I saw enemies enemies pointing guns and firing bullets to my friends. In my opinion, these new chop shops are way more valuable, than taking enemy gang drops or sitting in labs, therefore Andrej told you everything about it, so I will abstain and answer only if needed.

[Andrej_Krilin]

6 minutes ago, kris giggs said:

Just for context for the administrators reviewing the forum report - you mention fog in plural by saying 'we fog' in a fight that is being reported for similar reasons. How do you reconcile saying that nobody from fog is playing but you are seen and heard saying 'we fog' just 2 hours later in a separate fight as highlighted in the forum report below? Who is we in that context?

 

You clearly know all the fog members, I know you guys don't like us In-game from the old times, that's why I always mention that name when I see you. Almost every time it makes you angry, sometimes I cross the line with it, but that's the part of my strategy -trash talking.

[pasha9]

Pasha Xiao here

I was simply driving around when Jenifer Sinclair noticed GBK's chopshop. She called it out on our frequency and we soon after regrouped. We made sure to be heavily armed to push the chopshop. In this situation I only shot 1 bullet but that was because I missclicked.
That would be all from me because Frank has already explained all the important parts of this situation.
 

[Aldarine]

Thank you for your patience as this report has taken a lot of time to review in depth. As an update the report will be concluded within the next 24 hours.

[Aldarine]

Thank you kindly for your patience as we reviewed this report. First and foremost I would like to apologize for the length of time that it took to come to a conclusion on this report. With situations such as this there are many factors that come into play which require more in depth research and due to this the investigation time can be quite long. Along with that, numerous conversations were had so that we could appropriately lay out the pieces and get alternative perspectives prior to concluding. As noted, we do appreciate the sheer amount of patience and professionalism demonstrated by all parties. With that said, following the lengthy investigation and after taking all parties responses into account as well as provided evidence, we will be concluding this report as follows:

Frank_Xing will be receiving a Non Roleplay | New Life Rule, Back Up Rule & Poor Roleplay Standards punishment for the reported incident.

George_Moore will be receiving a Back Up Rule warning for the reported incident.

Andrej_Krilin will be receiving a Back Up Rule warning for the reported incident.

Ian_Connor will be receiving a Back Up Rule warning for the reported incident.

To explain the rationale for the above mentioned punishments, we would like to go over a few factors that were taken into account and investigated within this report.

1. New Life Rule

As part of this report, claims of New Life Rule being violated were mentioned and along with this, in a statement provided by Frank_Xing, further prompted investigation. This statement gave the rationale for the engagement in the first place and stated 'During that time I was debating whether we should hit it, however, remembering the recent past events and the fact that their command didn‘t even contact us regarding any of these past situations, I decided to hit the chopshop out of colors. This is when I called everyone that was on my radio frequency to gather around Forum Drive and get different outfits' and shows Frank_Xing as the main initiator of the situation. In response to this, a review of prior situations was started - primarily the first situation that happened which also prompted a response of 'In terms of NLR rule, my members left before the shootout had ended, therefore we didn't think much of a NLR rule as we simply did not know who came out on top' once more provided by Frank_Xing.

While reviewing the footage of the prior incident as well as conferring with player logs, it was confirmed that all members of the faction GBK died within this instance. Lance_Slash was the initial person to become injured and prior to this, over the course of a few more minutes, all players died. From this death, it is quite literally impossible for any member of GBK to reach out to Frank_Xing and his faction members. As such, this situation cannot be used as any form of justification for future hostile interactions. I will clarify that regardless of if members have left or not, it is your responsibility to ensure that NLR is not being breached. One cannot cite members leaving from a violent encounter prior to a shootout ending as reasoning for continuing forward and not knowing 'who came out on top.' This is highly irresponsible and leads to situations such as this which should have never happened under the guise of 'remembering the recent past events' when in fact these events all fall under New Life Rule.

To make it abundantly clear - New Life Rule is in effect between the two factions involved within this report. Going forward there should be absolutely no use of prior events to justify hostile encounters. All prior negative actions and interactions are to be disregarded and for hostilities to be resparked, proper roleplay interactions must take place without the killing and loss of members. In short, New Life Rule prompts non-violent encounters to take place as these types of encounters serve as longevity in conflict and once these more hostile and violent encounters take place and death is associated, the rule and all factors associated with it come closer to being in effect.

2. Back Up Rule

To appropriately address how this rule ties into the above punishments and warnings, we have to break it down into two sections. The first section is the concept of the use of radio frequencies and the individuals on said frequency as well as assistance with known violent encounters.

First, players Andrej_Krillin and Ian_Connor both stated within their responses that they were on the same frequency as members of the Shenzen faction and have been together for a few days doing activities together. Following cooking at a lab, the players separated for a break and then regrouped later after a call out was made in regards to the chop shop held by the reporting player and his faction. Once this call out was made, the grouping took place once more and an attack was launched on the chop shop which resulted in numerous people dying following heavy gunfire. Andrej_Krilin stated within his response that him and his friend are part of no group and I would like to clarify that regardless of the holding of an identifiable name, you are a group. Both players hold no connection to the opposing faction - even confirmed by reviewing the full roster of said faction. Due to this, they are viewed as simply additional numbers. The prior activity of being at a static lab should have been the only time they were on the frequency, only with those present at said lab, and once the break took place, that frequency should have been immediately dropped. It was outright confirmed that the opposite took place and again we venture to the numbers perspective which will be stated numerous times in the upcoming paragraphs as inappropriate.

Second, player Frank_Xing and George_Moore confirmed within their statements that they were having a discussion in regards to a potential shipment that was needed by George_Moore and during this time is when Frank_Xing heard over the radio the call out about the chop shop. This discussion then turned from a conversation about a shipment to George_Moore joining the efforts to attack the chop shop as he 'already had weapons on me (him)' and switching off of his frequency. At no point in time did George_Moore stumble upon a situation that was actively taking place. That is the exact opposite of what happened. Instead of a natural stumble, which is permissible within the rules and grounds for interjection should risk vs. reward and proper IC reason to risk one's life be taken into account, the player knowingly and willingly inserted themselves into a situation that was intended as a violent encounter following receiving information about the situation. This information was relayed by Frank_Xing during the conversation. It is quite clear that this should have never happened. Assistance from others outside of one's faction is limited to proper activities. Under no circumstances are violent encounters considered activities and it is abundantly clear that the additional person simply provided an extra number in the efforts.

With the above two points being stated, in total there were 3 players who should not have been a part of the situation at all. Taking that into account, the number of people who should have been involved in the first place would have been greatly reduced and left one faction in a position of being outnumbered and potentially not attempting to take the chop shop in the first place. It is entirely inappropriate, in every sense, to obtain additional people for encounters such as these as it can be very clearly shown what having more numbers can achieve due to the unfair tipping of the number scale.

3. Poor Roleplay Standards

When reviewing the video evidence in this report, at the approximate timestamp of 0:06, player Frank_Xing can be seen copy/pasting a semblance of demands while running and jumping outside of the location of the set up chop shop. At no point in time while this is said was the player within any form of visible proximity to clarify a threat or any validity to his statement. At the approximate timestamp of 0:10, the breach of the chop shop begins with the shouting of 'hands' an extreme number of times. Apologies if you feel different, but this is truthfully viewed as provocation and a potential bait for the right to shoot at others. In response to, especially the initial copied shouting, players would realistically withdraw firearms due to what appears to be a threat and subsequently this withdrawal of firearms will be used as rationale and justification for any and all subsequent shooting. This is something even stated within a provided response 'In the evidence provided by Kris Davis which is the POV of Frank_Xing you can see that ID 37 starts pointing their weapon at us. As a result, myself and Frank opened fire, killing him almost instantly. I understand that demands do not = deathmatching rights, which is why I did not open fire until I felt like my character's life was at risk due to the on-going threat (active shots and guns being pointed)' which was given as justification for the shooting that took place by George_Moore.

In final conclusion, we hope that the above clarifications and explanations provide insight into the rationale for all the punishments and warnings issue. We ask that all parties read through this carefully so that future instances such as was is noted above do not take place again. Ultimately we want to provide a more cohesive and realistic environment where all players can find enjoyment through proper interactions and come to conclusions on what is appropriate and not going forward.

Best Regards,

Administrator Aldarine & Senior Moderator Jellay