Mask 9160_3466, Mask 5747_9862, Mask 6011_6316. Rule Breach: 6.4.1, 6.6.1

[DaleBM]

Player(s) being reported: Mask 9160_3466, Mask 5747_9862, Mask 6011_6316
Date of rule breach: Sep 28, 2018
Time of rule breach: GMT 12:10 AM
Your characters name: Dale Manning
Other players involved: Mask 861_1831, Mask 9080_1077, Mask 6011_6316

Specific rule(s) broken: 
6.4.1 Forceful roleplay, that does not give the other player a chance to roleplay their own response is considered
powergaming.
6.6.1 Actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay are considered as non-roleplay.

How did the player break the rule?: 
Before I start this report I would like anyone involved in this situation to be aware that the RP is currently paused with this situation as confirmed by Moderator @Cooksley in the picture I have attached.

As context to the situation there was a robbery which began at one location, which then moved to our groups house, upon which one of our members were forced to open the house and the robbers stole around 560k worth of guns, drugs, radios etc. This may count as a breach of rule 7.5.3 but I believe that @harmdone is dealing with this situation and it won't be discussed here. We then found one of their accomplices called George with the black truck they are infamous for using and took him hostage as a bargaining tool for getting our items back.

I would also like to say that the RP was fully enjoyable up to the point of the handover, but I feel I speak for everyone on my side of the RP when I state that what we saw from this point on was simply a poor quality of RP which consisted of powergaming and unrealistic actions.

I have included a full video of the handover process itself which is mostly for context, the main points I will discuss start at 12:40. It is also important to state that the hostage had to go offline and it was decided along with admin @Charlie Mangione that we should continue the RP as if he was there.

After a mexican standoff about handing over the ransom for George I decided the fairest way to do this was to swap places and drop items off and drop the hostage off at either side. I removed Georges restraints and would have told George to /down and hands up if he was actually there but for the purposes of RP I used a /do command to continue the RP.

What happened afterwards is where the complaint starts, the trio jumped off the bridge (I can only assume with parachutes otherwise this would show no value for life). It is just prior to this action where I would argue a rule breach of 6.6.1 as there was no roleplay initiated from the trio taking back the hostage. In fact they don't even go over to the other side of the bridge where we left George the hostage which is argued as poor quality roleplay with actions that aren't realistic.

This poor level of roleplay would also make it impossible for the hostage to have a parachute to jump off with them so in terms of RP it is argued here that George would still be in our possession as a hostage. Regardless of any footage that arises in their defense, it is argued that whatever the trio did from their side would count as powergaming and a breach of rule 6.4.1 as it forced a point where we could not respond as the hostage takers to the situation. Especially as giving George a parachute would have taken sometime if he was there. The situation was left to feel deflated for everyone involved with blatant rule breaches after a long RP situation.

Further to this I feel that it is a topic that has not been approached yet, but in a case like this it should be made clear in a /do command that someone is wearing a parachute (as in reality this would be physically evident) particularly with the light shirts and hoodies that the trio were wearing. Even with a massive coat, I feel this should have been made clear and would argue that as a breach of rule 6.4.1 because had I known that all three of them were wearing parachutes I would not have let the deal go further. I didn't feel that I had an appropriate chance to RP my response to the situation.

I would also like to point out at 6:08 there is an OOC agreement to give 'the bags' in exchange for George. I feel that this is an abuse of the good community spirit of ECRP as it is clear that I meant the items that were supposed to be inside the bags which we had discussed at length IC. In the end this is a video game, it is not my responsibility to hold you accountable with a full length contract, it was clear what was meant and wordplay shouldn't get you out of whether or not we agreed OOC about the handover. I have attached two screenshots of us discussing the trade OOC for admins discretion.

I would suggest as a remedy to this situation, that either the RP should be re-conducted correctly OR that due to the breaking of an OOC agreement that the items specified IC simply be handed to us and we forget that this event took place and instead continue our lives with the understanding that the handover was successful on both sides. This would extremely benefit George when he returns to the city. These are merely suggestions to solve this situation where I speak on behalf of many people I represent that are frustrated with this situation and the poor RP that played out.

I would also invite any support staff involved in this RP to provide their interpretation of the situation as well, it could help clear this situation alot faster. I understand this is a difficult topic for all involved so thank you everyone in advance for your time and effort regarding this.

Evidence of rule breach: 

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by DaleBM
Adding pictures (also trying to add colour to text which isnt working)

[Phil McGee]

Ill just note you forgot to add invisible George and report him for alleged power gaming also........

[Flucifial]

Hello and thank you for making this report.

@Dashingly Leron_Davis (Mask 9160_3466), @Phil McGee Phil_Mcgee (Mask 5747_9862), and @TH3BrutalApple John_Butter (Mask 6011_6316) will have twenty-four (24) hours to respond with their side of the story.

-Flucifial

[Dashingly]

Yeah this was a pretty awkward situation as we had to RP as if Georg was still there, but with him not actually being in game we had to make due with just /me's and /do's. 

The Shadow Cartel kidnapped Georg and held him ransom until we gave them back the items we stole from them. Unfortunately Georg had work early in the morning so he had to sign off for the night, leaving us to RP as if he was still there. Georg didn't anticipate being kidnapped and the situation lasting over an hour, so he really had to get off. The plan for us was to bring them up 2 empty bags, have them release Georg where we would hand him a parachute and we would jump off of this bridge to our friends waiting below as a getaway. We RP'd buying an extra parachute from the convenience store, and brought it up on the bridge to hand to "Georg" (Evidence of us RPly buying the extra chute here. https://gyazo.com/e3dcb3b2e0bf0df8600a615864c3b976, the screenshot is timestamped on 9/27 6:50ish EST, unfortunately I only have this screenshot, not video, but I'm sure you can check the logs for it.) Like I said, since Georg wasn't physically at the bridge, this made the ensuing situation a bit awkward.

Throughout the whole time we were on the bridge Phil and I talk about how cold Georg looks, and we talked about putting a jacket (chute) on Georg (you can hear us mention this several times during the video, including 11:06-11:11, 13:37-13:43). When the transfer was going down, you see me drop a top on the ground (see 13:46-13:48 in the video). RP wise, that would have been the parachute for Georg to pick up, unfortunately I had no time to write a "/me wraps the chute around Georg" while we were still up there because they had already ran to the bags and discovered they were empty (if Georg was physically on the bridge in game, I wouldn't have had to write the /me's I would have just dropped the chute for him to equip and we would jump). So I wrote the /me when I hit the ground, because if I had started typing while I was up there, they would have pulled guns on me, (see the screenshot of the /me here: https://gyazo.com/e47578231ea3d0e21f33ac39f0eae60b). 

So we had no intention of trying to powergame or hurt the RP setting, but we were restricted by Georg not physically being in game. The top that I dropped was acting as the extra parachute that I RPly bought, if Georg was there I would have dropped a real parachute. I was worried if I dropped a real parachute during the situation one of you would have picked it up and jumped down with us. I would gladly redo RP for this scenario like you suggested but I feel like it wouldn't be feasible with you guys knowing that we would jump off the bridge. 

-------------

As far as the PM's go, I agreed to give you 'the bags' we had on us, because if I had said no you would have stopped the deal right there and gotten suspicious that we would be deceiving you. It's kind of a weird thing to ask if we're going to scam you over PM's because it kinda forces us to either spoil our plans or be shady.

All in all, this RP situation was sorted of marred by the fact that Georg wasn't physically in game. If he was physically in game, we would have actually dropped the extra parachute we bought and jumped, instead of me dropping a 'RP chute,' and jumping down and typing the /me after we landed.

My party is willing to void RP to that point if you want to continue RPing like you have Georg, and we still have your goods. But as I said earlier I feel like the situation would just be unfeasible because both gangs would know what's about to happen and all parties would act differently then the way it did go down.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Dashingly

[Phil McGee]

In the hour that you had George in your possession, Leron rang you 2 or 3 times in my presence to no response from yourself for whatever reason. If you had actually answered those calls this RP  would have happened with "Non Invisible George" and would have been a lot smoother. He would have had ample time to put the chute on and jump off while you were all looking in the bags. 

I know you sent me PMs also trying to get me to agree to hand over the guns on an OOC level but I would not agree to something like that as it makes no sense so I chose not to respond to your messages. 

But if you feel you were deceived you are more than welcome to keep invisible George , just make sure you feed him.

[Flucifial]

This does seem like a very unfortunate situation, and for that reason, I am going to give the opportunity for all parties to replay this roleplay scenario out, with George being present. In order to do this, there will be at least one staff member, most likely myself, spectating the entire roleplay scenario to ensure everyone roleplays correctly. Everyone must have the same items, vehicles, and people they had at the time of this "failed" RP attempt. 

If all parties agree to replay the roleplay scenario, simply type "Yes" below. After all parties have agreed, we will organize a time to roleplay the scenario. If all parties do not agree to replay the roleplay, roleplay will be voided. Leron, Phil, and John should have RP'd putting a parachute on George before jumping off the bridge. Rather than handing out punishments, I feel everyone should have the opportunity to replay this situation. 

Pending agreement or disagreement from all parties involved. Please have George look at this thread as well.

-Flucifial

[Dashingly]

Me and Phil would be willing to redo the RP as long as an admins present to make sure nothing changes with the RP.

Again, the reason I didn't do the /me while I was up there was because when I dropped the top and was about to type out the /me, they already ran at the bags and discovered they were empty, not leaving me with the time to RP it.

Anyway, yes to redoing the RP from our party.

[Flucifial]

Pending response from @DaleBM, who will represent his party.

Pending response from Georg_Miller

[DaleBM]

Sorry I have been a bit busy last few days. Will pass all of this onto members of the Shadow Cartel so they can decide as well (I am simply representing them here on the forums).

[DaleBM]

Thank you for your response @Flucifial. When posting this topic I believe that at first myself along with other members of the Shadow Cartel were willing to replay the RP of this event. However, as far as we can tell from the responses of @Phil McGee and @Dashingly they do not intend to RP correctly enough according to the server rules so we see no reason to engage with them again in replaying the RP. Let alone waste so many peoples time again.

I will refer to @Dashingly's comments on this topic as the comments from @Phil McGee don't appear to be relevant and just end in snide remarks which shows his poor level of respect for other people in the ECRP community (just a personal opinion).

I have taken the time to write a comprehensive report on the situation @Phil McGee because of what many people considered to be very poor RP on your part and you respond about the OOC agreement and a topic which neither side denies which is that we paused the RP. You make an irrelevant remark as soon as you see the forum post and contribute next to nothing in comparison to @Dashingly on this topic. Next time you find yourself in a similar situation I would suggest being more respectful to others in the ECRP community as I am sure it is not just me that finds your attitude simply rude.

On 10/19/2018 at 5:41 PM, Dashingly said:

Again, the reason I didn't do the /me while I was up there was because when I dropped the top and was about to type out the /me, they already ran at the bags and discovered they were empty, not leaving me with the time to RP it.

All I can see here is a complete admission that @Dashingly did NOT commit to the level of RP that is required on the server. I have mentioned this in my original post so wont go into which rules etc again but effectively they didn't have 'time' to RP putting on a parachute.

George was on the other side of the bridge, laying on the floor. A paratrooper couldn't get a parachute on in the time you gave fake George to get his parachute on. The RP was demonstrably poor, particularly from such experienced players on the server, and I can't believe that the possibility of you not receiving punishments is on the table. Even if the ability to replay the scenario came about, they should still be punished for the rule breaches that they have even admitted to.

As @Dashingly has admitted to deciding not to use relevant /me and /do commands I believe he should be punished appropriately along with @Phil McGee and @TH3BrutalApple who was in the same position. In fact @TH3BrutalApple has provided nothing to this entire topic thread despite having an active forum account.

This entire situation was broken within 30 seconds of terrible RP and they have demonstrated this frequently by abusing the shooting mechanics of the Phantom (which has since been fixed and we are glad for this) but they were very aware of what they were doing. They don't RP in a manner which the Shadow Cartel deem appropriate and thus on further reflection, we would REJECT an opportunity to replay the RP.

We are unsure how to resolve the conflict for RP to continue IC as coherently as possible. My intitial response is to make sure the weapons are handed back and void the entire situation. However this may seem petty and vindictive to simply reject RPing the event in order to have the guns returned. We will let the admins decide, and we would also appreciate some light shedding on the situation with the guns being taken whilst breaking server rules in the first place.

As a final note I would like to say that I do not wish to discuss anything further regarding this situation and rule breaking etc and I feel that I have provided sufficient evidence in my first post to address the reasons why all 3 participants should be punished. I feel I have represented my group fairly and there shouldn't be any further need for my input.

[Phil McGee]

@DaleBM When have I exactly insulted you in this thread as I dont see any personal attacks but you feel you can just insult me? I dont really care what your personal opinions are of my personality as I have not breached any server/forum rules. What I see before me is a sour child who lost all his guns in fair RP and took to the forums to whine about it.

You talk about fairness and civility in relation to returning the items we took with perfectly legit RP and beg for an OOC agreement to return said weapons, well I can say its pathetic weak behavior on your part.

You clearly created this report with one intent and that intent was to try and get your items back. Next time answer your phone when involved in a RP and stop wasting everyone's time. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Phil McGee

[DaleBM]

@Phil McGee at no point have I said that you have made personal attacks or insulted me. Those are your words. I have said that your attitude is rude and you have made irrelevant comments. My personal opinions of your personality are linked to what the problem in this incident is. You showed no respect for us during the RP of that scenario, and you show no respect on the forums despite myself and other people going out of our way to make time to discuss this scenario as clearly and maturely as possible. I have said you are being rude, that is not an insult. It is an opinion about the way you treat myself and the rest of the group that I represent with your actions and words. 

For example you refer to me as a 'sour child' when I haven't resorted to any name calling whatsoever when dealing with you. I would argue I have been more than fair with how I responded to you on behalf of my group. The issue with how you took the guns is not something I can report about as I wasn't involved in the scenario there, but from what I have heard about it there were several rule breaks which at the time weren't dealt with. This has of course had an impact on the RP scenario we are discussing here.

I created this report because your RP was appaling and you along with your colleagues ruined a perfectly good RP scenario by acting as if George was a transient being with magical parachute super powers. I have made that clear throughout. Both parties agreed to pause the RP so don't pull that I didn't respond on the phone when you have had weeks to make a further point about that topic. 

With some more clarification with Shadow Cartel members we have decided the following suggestions. Our suggestions to conclude this would be as follows: 

1. Have all the items returned back to the Shadow Cartel and void the RP situation with those involved because they robbed someone then moved him to our safe house and took further items which breaches the clauses of server rules with regards to robberies. If those involved disagree with this statement then I would ask @Phil McGee and @Dashingly to provide evidence that this is untrue, but I would preempt that the whole RP situation took place because our items were stolen. So there must be some truth to our side of the story.

1 hour ago, Phil McGee said:

returning the items we took with perfectly legit RP

If you suggest it is perfectly legit RP then please provide evidence of you taking the items with 'perfectly legit RP' so we can put this issue to bed.

2. Apply the correct punishments as suggested to those involved including for scamming as @Dashingly did accept the OOC agreement. Like I said previously I'm not a lawyer and this isn't that serious in the wider scheme of life I won't sit there writing out a contract for you to sign and in fact the amount of time I have already had to spend on this is absolutely ridiculous when you should just put your hands up accept it and move on.

[Phil McGee]

4 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

at no point have I said that you have made personal attacks or insulted me. Those are your words. I have said that your attitude is rude and you have made irrelevant comments. My personal opinions of your personality are linked to what the problem in this incident is. You showed no respect for us during the RP of that scenario, and you show no respect on the forums despite myself and other people going out of our way to make time to discuss this scenario as clearly and maturely as possible. I have said you are being rude, that is not an insult. It is an opinion about the way you treat myself and the rest of the group that I represent with your actions and words. 

Respect is earned not given.

4 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

For example you refer to me as a 'sour child' when I haven't resorted to any name calling whatsoever when dealing with you. I would argue I have been more than fair with how I responded to you on behalf of my group. The issue with how you took the guns is not something I can report about as I wasn't involved in the scenario there, but from what I have heard about it there were several rule breaks which at the time weren't dealt with. This has of course had an impact on the RP scenario we are discussing here.

Its just my personal view that your a sour child. And if you felt there were rules breaks make a report about them instead of dragging them up here as you said in your first post you were not going to derail this thread. 

6 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

I created this report because your RP was appaling and you along with your colleagues ruined a perfectly good RP scenario by acting as if George was a transient being with magical parachute super powers. I have made that clear throughout. Both parties agreed to pause the RP so don't pull that I didn't respond on the phone when you have had weeks to make a further point about that topic. 

Rp was not paused at that point when the calls were being made that you didnt answer. 

 

7 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

With some more clarification with Shadow Cartel members we have decided the following suggestions. Our suggestions to conclude this would be as follows: 

1. Have all the items returned back to the Shadow Cartel and void the RP situation with those involved because they robbed someone then moved him to our safe house and took further items which breaches the clauses of server rules with regards to robberies. If those involved disagree with this statement then I would ask @Phil McGee and @Dashingly to provide evidence that this is untrue, but I would preempt that the whole RP situation took place because our items were stolen. So there must be some truth to our side of the story.

2 hours ago, Phil McGee said:

Onus of proof is on the accuser not us. If you feel we broke the rules make a report with valid evidence.  I will ask why would you want to RP begging for them back it if you felt we broke the rules to obtain your items. Its makes no sense. 

 

8 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

2. Apply the correct punishments as suggested to those involved including for scamming as @Dashingly did accept the OOC agreement. Like I said previously I'm not a lawyer and this isn't that serious in the wider scheme of life I won't sit there writing out a contract for you to sign and in fact the amount of time I have already had to spend on this is absolutely ridiculous when you should just put your hands up accept it and move on.

The OOC agreement was for 2 bags , you got 2 bags and if you wish to void the RP we want those 2 bags back please as they are not cheap.  

 

Have a nice day. 

 

[DaleBM]

51 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

Respect is earned not given.

Respect is not earned it is demanded by the community of ECRP. Please don't drop lines like Steven Segal this isn't a Hollywood film.

51 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

Its just my personal view that your a sour child. And if you felt there were rules breaks make a report about them instead of dragging them up here as you said in your first post you were not going to derail this thread. 

I have been asked to bring it up here in this post as it directly relates to this incident here. And I wonder if my discussion about an event that affects this topic is derailing the thread versus you calling me a sour child?
 

51 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

Rp was not paused at that point when the calls were being made that you didnt answer. 

I extended the pause because I had to explain to everyone what the pause was for and didn't have the same break my self. I believe I informed @Dashingly of this but can't honestly remember because this situation has been going on for far too long and every detail is becoming foggy.
 

51 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

Onus of proof is on the accuser not us. If you feel we broke the rules make a report with valid evidence.  I will ask why would you want to RP begging for them back it if you felt we broke the rules to obtain your items. Its makes no sense. 

Proof works both ways. You also have to prove your innocence. As @harmdone is very aware, there was no evidence from our side. So this means that actually the result is fully in balance of whether or not you can provide evidence. It is also your responsibility especially as you refer to it as:

3 hours ago, Phil McGee said:

perfectly legit RP

and many people including members of the Shadow Cartel have failed to see any evidence OOCly for that and would appreciate some clarification. We didn't RP begging for them back, the RP of hostage negotiations etc was actually pretty good up until the handover as mentioned earlier. We decided to pursue an IC reason to take the guns back as we came across George and it made sense for good RP. It actually makes complete sense when you think about it beyond writing pointless comments in response like this:

51 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

The OOC agreement was for 2 bags , you got 2 bags and if you wish to void the RP we want those 2 bags back please as they are not cheap.  

I have made my point very clear in the first point with this:

On 9/28/2018 at 2:33 PM, DaleBM said:

I feel that this is an abuse of the good community spirit of ECRP as it is clear that I meant the items that were supposed to be inside the bags which we had discussed at length IC. In the end this is a video game, it is not my responsibility to hold you accountable with a full length contract, it was clear what was meant and wordplay shouldn't get you out of whether or not we agreed OOC about the handover. I have attached two screenshots of us discussing the trade OOC for admins discretion.

But thank you @Phil McGee for admitting that you were using wordplay to OOC scam the items off of us in exchange for George. And as it was @Dashingly that made this OOC agreement I can only assume that both of you knew about this idea and so are both responsible.

Edited October 22, 2018 by DaleBM

[Flucifial]

I will now be concluding this report based on the fact that one of the parties failed to agree to the proposal of replaying the roleplay scenario as such.

It is very clear that powergaming was broken by the reported party as they forced roleplay without giving the reporting party a chance to respond to this sort of roleplay. In the future, should a situation similar to this happen, you must roleplay having the parachute on, and giving George a parachute, before jumping off to avoid the roleplay turning against you. 

The original creation of this report was for the unrealistic roleplay and powergaming accusations, not the fact that a robbery rule was broken. Both parties have failed to provide any evidence of rule 7.5.3 being broken, and as originally stated, Dale agreed not to discuss that here and to only address the powergaming accusations. If you believe that rule 7.5.3 was in-fact broken, feel free to file a separate forum report that contains evidence of such event happening.

There is also no evidence to prove that an in-character conversation happened in-which the agreement was that the bags would have the items that were supposedly agreed to. The only evidence we have is of an out-of-character agreement for two bags, and George. 

Leron_Davis (Mask 9160_3466) will receive a warning for their first offense of Powergaming. 

Phil_McGee (Mask 5747_9862) will receive a warning for their first offense of Powergaming. 

John_Butter (Mask 6011_6316) will receive a warning for their first offense of Powergaming. 

For all parties reference, roleplay will be considered how it happened. The Shadow Cartel received two empty bags in exchange for George, their hostage.

Report Accepted/Archived

-Flucifial

[Flucifial]

Upon further investigation, I will be reopening this report to investigate the alleged scam rule breach. @DaleBM, please provide any evidence you have of the group of people agreeing to hand over bags containing far more than $15,000 in exchange for George.

Thank you in advance. 

[Phil McGee]

@Flucifial for my appeal what exactly did I power game as I didn't type and /me or/do? What element of jumping off a bridge with a chute is powergaming in this instance? 

[Dashingly]

Why are phil and john getting punished? they just jumped from the bridge, i typed the /me.

[Flucifial]

15 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

@Flucifial for my appeal what exactly did I power game as I didn't type and /me or/do? What element of jumping off a bridge with a chute is powergaming in this instance? 

You, along with John and Leron, did not RP the fact you had a parachute on yourself, nor did you RP putting a parachute on George, but mainly the first fact. You forced the fact you had a parachute, without giving the other party the option to respond.

[Dashingly]

6 hours ago, DaleBM said:

All I can see here is a complete admission that @Dashingly did NOT commit to the level of RP that is required on the server. I have mentioned this in my original post so wont go into which rules etc again but effectively they didn't have 'time' to RP putting on a parachute.

I didn't have time to type up a /me and /do which would have taken like an excess of 10-15 seconds. You would have pulled guns on me by that time.

Let's not get this twisted, I was typing up the /me, you discover that the bags are empty, so instead of typing a /me I drop the item (which would have been Georg's parachute) on the ground and jump down. Not even a few seconds after I hit the ground I type the /me, because I was forced to jump down or get guns pulled on me with no opportunity to type the /me.

6 hours ago, DaleBM said:

George was on the other side of the bridge, laying on the floor. A paratrooper couldn't get a parachute on in the time you gave fake George to get his parachute on. The RP was demonstrably poor, particularly from such experienced players on the server, and I can't believe that the possibility of you not receiving punishments is on the table. Even if the ability to replay the scenario came about, they should still be punished for the rule breaches that they have even admitted to.

Who's powergaming now? You walked Georg over to the other side of the bridge (like 5 feet away, don't know why your making it sound like its a mile), cut his restraints so that he could come with us, and now you're saying that he was lying on the ground? In what world would he be lying on the ground if you didn't rp forcing him to the ground?

He's given us the option of either redoing RP of the scenario or voiding it entirely, instead of dishing out punishments because he believes that the situation would be mended if Georg was at the situation.

6 hours ago, DaleBM said:

As @Dashingly has admitted to deciding not to use relevant /me and /do commands I believe he should be punished appropriately along with @Phil McGee and @TH3BrutalApple who was in the same position. In fact @TH3BrutalApple has provided nothing to this entire topic thread despite having an active forum account.

I did do /me's, only after the fact so that I wouldn't have had guns pulled on me. In place of the /me's I dropped Georg's 'parachute' on the ground, which if he was there he would have picked up and equipped before you knew the bags were empty.

 

6 hours ago, DaleBM said:

This entire situation was broken within 30 seconds of terrible RP and they have demonstrated this frequently by abusing the shooting mechanics of the Phantom (which has since been fixed and we are glad for this) but they were very aware of what they were doing. They don't RP in a manner which the Shadow Cartel deem appropriate and thus on further reflection, we would REJECT an opportunity to replay the RP.

Let's not act holier than thou, who cares what the Shadow Cartel deem appropriate RP, we've seen what takes place behind the scenes with your gang. In a 4 hour twitch vod, your gang is seen MG'ing nonstop, DM'ing, mercy killing, breaking NLR, mixing OOC and IC and more. This "terrible RP" of using the Phantom was deemed a game mechanic and desync throughout the whole time we used it. As soon as it was announced that shooting out of the truck would be considered power gaming, we stopped using it. 

 

3 hours ago, DaleBM said:

1. Have all the items returned back to the Shadow Cartel and void the RP situation with those involved because they robbed someone then moved him to our safe house and took further items which breaches the clauses of server rules with regards to robberies.

Lol, this is Phil's whole point. This thread was just a sad attempt to get your items back that were stolen fairly. Harmdone (the developer) was with us when we stole your guns, he has not found that we're guilty of breaking any rules there, so can you drop it? 

 

2 hours ago, DaleBM said:

But thank you @Phil McGee for admitting that you were using wordplay to OOC scam the items off of us in exchange for George. And as it was @Dashingly that made this OOC agreement I can only assume that both of you knew about this idea and so are both responsible.

Word play for an ooc scam? You PM'd us basically asking us if we were going to scam you, how are we supposed to reply to that? We agreed that we would give you 2 bags in exchange for Georg, and that's that. IMO it should have never went OOC.

2 hours ago, DaleBM said:

Proof works both ways. You also have to prove your innocence.

No. This is an absurd claim, it's not guilty until proven innocent, it's innocent until proven guilty. The onus is on you to prove that we broke the rules.

EDIT: Also, the scamming rule that states that you can't scam over $15,000 is regarding robbing goods off of the player after tricking them into coming to a location. No good were robbed, we traded 2 bags in exchange for invisible Georg and that's that.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Dashingly

[DaleBM]

I don't see any reason to discuss anything except the scam rule because @Flucifial has already concluded everything else and this is dragging on for way too long.

Here is the evidence of the IC agreement with regards to all the items. As you can see at the end Mask 8101_1850 @TommyV suggests that I get an OOC agreement to clarify what is being handed over as he is more experienced with the workings of the server than I am. We assumed they were being legitimate with the offer as their friends life was at stake and the amount was over $15,000. We wanted some concrete evidence should the deal go sour for any reason, be it server crashes or anything else that could get in the way. It was beyond our imagination that they would try and scam us for such a huge amount of money bearing in mind the stakes in the deal.

I wasn't very aware of the scamming rule at the time but turns out that everything that was agreed ICly is worth way over the amount allowed for scamming which is $15,000. It equates to roughly $500,000, which all of our members had collectively put in for and it is their time and effort I care about.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by DaleBM

[Phil McGee]

1 hour ago, Flucifial said:

You, along with John and Leron, did not RP the fact you had a parachute on yourself, nor did you RP putting a parachute on George, but mainly the first fact. You forced the fact you had a parachute, without giving the other party the option to respond

Ive never seen the PD RP having chutes on them yet they use them all the time? How are we held to a higher standard than them.

I also never gave the chute to Georg so how am I responsible for RPing that?

But purely from a constructive perspective can you describe how you would have RPed a chute on your back in theses circumstances? Besides the automated /me when you equip it etc

 

[Phil McGee]

Also @DaleBM in regards to that clip , didn't I take over the negotiations after that call? Where is that part? As I recall telling you you're getting nothing!

And something along the lines of Georg is nice and all but not 600k nice.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Phil McGee

[Dashingly]

43 minutes ago, DaleBM said:

everything that was agreed ICly is worth way over the amount allowed for scamming which is $15,000

Again, this $15,000 limit is regarding bringing goods to a location, and then robbing the player of the goods. Read the rule here:

Players may trick their victims into delivering their valuables to a specified location and rob them afterwards, however, the scam value must not exceed $15.000. Scammers cannot not lie to their victims in OOC form.

What goods did we rob off you of? 

[Flucifial]

53 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

Ive never seen the PD RP having chutes on them yet they use them all the time? How are we held to a higher standard than them.

I also never gave the chute to Georg so how am I responsible for RPing that?

But purely from a constructive perspective can you describe how you would have RPed a chute on your back in theses circumstances? Besides the automated /me when you equip it etc

3

There are no automatic /me's or /do's when it comes to parachutes, I have just tested that for myself. In the future, I would just use a /do letting the people around you know that you have a parachute or at least a large lump from your back. You're not responsible for RPing giving the parachute to George, I've stated that it was mainly the first point;