Casso Familia - 7.7 Kidnapping & 7.2 DM, Possible MG

[ChuckM]

Player(s) being reported:  Stranger 526_6859, Mask 1739_5653, Stranger 6510_9081 (others could be included but these
ones transported and pointed weapons)
Date of rule breach: 09/22/2018
Time of rule breach: Approximately 5:00pm EST

Your characters name: Reginald_Jenkins
Other players involved: Stranger 1674_136 (Big J)

Specific rule broken:
7.2.1 Deathmatch is the act of killing or hurting another player (or damaging their property) without a proper roleplay reason.
An attempt to break this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.

7.4.2 A player is allowed to KoS someone, only for specific reasons, that are not older than 24 real world hours, and if the
new life rule is followed.

7.4.1 Kill on sight (KoS) is the act of killing a player with no engagement in roleplay.

7.4.3 KoS is allowed for these specific reasons:
• Your life was threatened in the past (ex.: in a robbery, a combat situation or a hostage situation);
• The life of your friend or ally is threatened at the present or if you have witnessed it happen in the past;
• There is an attempt to steal your valuables, or those of your group, if the value of theft is not less than $75.000
(this point excludes vehicles);


How did the player break the rule?:
Backstory: Ballas gang had imported some silencers and when we went to retrieve them they were taken by someone but in 
the process of searching we found their crates. A gun fight broke out and we made it to the warehouse to offload. When
we exited the warehouse we were immediately gunned down, searched and all of us died which means we are bound 
by the NLR.

I believe this group metagamed our names on F4 or the "faceplate" of the warehouse and decided to declare war. I believe
that interaction was the only one we ever had. They did not get any info out of us before dying so there's no reasonable
way they could have 100% known we were Ballas to initiate a war.  

The turf takeover was intervened by another administrator and they called off the war and we thought that was the end
of that.

Story: Not long after (but after NLR timer), I was confronted by this gang again demanding answers about their stolen shipment
They should OOCly know they already killed me and I would not be able to give any information. They continue to assert
that I am Ballas and at one point "confirm" that I am Ballas by checking my license (Possibly metagaming with F4). They
don't like the answers I am giving so they kidnap me, take me elsewhere and torture me with a knife because I won't
admit that I am Ballas. Before the dropping me off at the hospital I told them I would be reporting them on the forums, so
they are aware that this report would be made.  

According to the kidnapping rule these players did not have a valid reason (KOS reason) to kidnap me because I
was already killed for taking their shipment (NLR in effect). I do not believe they had a reason to torture me as 
I was compliant with their demands. I believe there was some metagaming with F4 by trying to confirm mine and 
Kendrick Woodrow's name with the Ballas. They did obtain our names in the warehouse shooting but to tie it to the
Ballas gang is suspicious other than saying that because we are wearing purple we must be in that gang.  


Evidence of rule breach:
Videos (along with some time stamped "highlights") can be PM'd to the staff member who takes this report because of 
admin chat in the video.

[DISCO]

Hello,

I am the one (Vladimir Johanson), who got involved heavily in this situation (we imported 10 AKs and I paid for 7 of those myself), I was one of the guys who mainly was speaking with Reginald and transporting him.

So basically, pretty much the whole story told by Chuck in this report is kinda accurate, but I want to point some issues in this story.

We were importing 10 AK's and the leader of my gang, Jamal, was taking them. Apparently he took silencers instead of AK's, as far as I know, which came in the same exact import spot as our AK's, which were imported by Ballas. Later I got info, that Jamal took silencers and basically that was double side of the steal, so my intentions in this whole kidnapping situation were to get my AK's back or get the information about Ballas leaders phones, so we could do the deal, get our AK's and pass them our silencers.

Based of the fact, that this is admin faction, after our AK's been stolen and transported to Ballas turf (one guy was following them all the way to Ballas turf, which is obvious) and Vagos boys confirmed that this is Ballas turf (take a note that was not a metagame, since we had a confirmation from two gangs, possible more), we (Casso Family) declared a war on Ballas based on stolen AKs after the shootout at their warehouse. My character got information, that they started to shoot first, which after I spoke to @BallinByNature in discord to clarify the fact, even tho I was in the shootout, but I followed the shootout and I was a part of it due to KOS (value was more than 75k worth of stuff stolen). After we got all them down, my guys searched their pockets and got their names, but take a NOTE, that Ballas members all rped unconcious, so we couldnt get more information nor get something to rely on future interactions to solve the problem.

After the shootout, our faction declared a war to Ballas and we started to take their capture points, but at the middle of takeover, harmdone teleported in and told us to stop turf takeover, which we did, and the mainly reason this went to forums is that Harmdone said "take it in IC", when he got asked about what is going next according to the AK problem, since we lost in this cant-win-against-admin-faction situation, we couldn't do anything about those AK's. I believe somebody of us got that screenshot by saying him that. Ballas sent us the peace treaty over F4, we accepted it and moved on.

So, we started investigation on IC basis, as we got told and I am pretty sure BallinByNature is well informed about it.

 

Somebody of our guys found a guy, who might look as an ballas member in the same hood where one of the Ballas capture points are. From that point I started recording my own side on OBS (my pc can barely run OBS and GTA at the same time). The accusation about metagaming was kinda accurate, because I opened F4 on purpose after I got ID of Reginald myself (because everyone needs proof these days and I wanted to be safe if the guy lies about it not being a ballas member after not carrying about his life and not valuing his life), but then I got told in /f chat that it would be metagaming, so I took the situation in the investigation mode and that moment when I said that "so you are the ballas member", it slipped a bit, but after that I rp'ed all the situation to get information from him. I wasn't trying to say he is 100 percent ballas member, but we just decided to move investigation further.

 

We transported him to our place, I rp'ed by searching his phone, messages, contacts, I was giving questions and we tried to interogate him to get an useful information. Thats it, the whole thing was based on IC situation and we wanted to be in tact with RP, not metagaming. I personally did not know if the guy was in the shootout, or not, so I dont recall him being a part of the shootout at the warehouse and ICly I was thinking he was some kind of low rank member in Ballas, so the accusation of us taking him as a hostage or breaking NLR wasnt very true, since I didnt got that information. My big apologies if we broked a rule unpurposely, but that was for the sake of RP.

 

Another thing worth mentioning - when his fingers got cut and he got tortured ( I personally didnt conduct that RP on my own), even tho the torture was RP'ed, not actually DM'ing him, he still didnt released the information that he is a part of Ballas, which kinda breaches the the whole point of valuing his life and FearRP rule. Also after that, when Reginald asked via /b to wrap that thing down, we rped, that we tried to patch his wounds with ice and etc and we brought him to hospital and left him there. We tried to RP every single step, so in my opinion we are not worth to get such kind of report on our side and we are sending big apologies from our side if it took a bit longer on the RP side and the whole torture scene and we are sending our honest apologies to everyone were involved in this situation, since half of us are still learning the RP scene and all the little details about it.

 

I just dont want this situation to be "admin is salty and he wants them to get punished" situation, just because we interacted with admin based faction, which is barely inactive and I saw them once ICly before like a month or two ago, so I would like to get this situation solved by staff, who is not in Ballas to be unbias, because I dont want witchhunting and I don't like, when admins are invicible and untouchable, just because they got interaction from other gang. I think most of the gangs are lowkey pissed off of the inactive turfs being held by admins or the guys who log in for 5 mins to keep the treasury generated, thus making it a unfair for other active gangs and its a big problem in the server, but nobody tried to talk about it loud.

 

Also I will upload my side of story, which is 54 minutes long. I am sure admins or the staff, who will look at this report, will get the Chucks side video, but since I dont have any admin chat in my video, I will upload it, so everybody in this community can watch this and get some enterntainment.

Sincerely,

Vladimir Johanson

member of Casso Family

[ChuckM]

@DISCO, thank you for your open and honest reply, uploading a video so that everyone can see and for accepting my /b request to speed up the RP so that I could go eat dinner (scenario was about an hour long). I also appreciate the level of RP your gang carried themselves with and I didn't want to ruin the RP scene by complaining in /b or going into admin mode which I reserve for egregious rule breaks like VDM/RDM. 

Your story seems fairly accurate from what I can tell. I do not believe someone tailed us back to the Warehouse because we took a long and confusing route back. I do believe someone either saw our vehicles from the main road or Metagamed the warehouse location based on knowing our gang colors are purple, therefore we must be Ballas. I do not have any issues with that backstory or the events that followed because you guys did have KOS rights on us for taking your crates. Shooting us down when we left the warehouse was, in my opinion, the wrong move because it would be difficult to extract information or force us to do things when we are bleeding out on the ground after gunshots to the head, spine, etc... That should have been the end of that scenario because all three of us must abide by the NLR so by coming after me later you should all know OOCly that I can't possibly tell you anything about the AKs unless i break the NLR/Metagamed. 

The leader of your gang personally frisked my body outside the warehouse and got my full name so when confronted by him again later in the day he should have 100% known I was already killed for the AK incident and can't RP that again. Jamal, the gang leader, instigated and orchestrated the entire scenario (even though he wasn't doing the torture) which is why I made this report against him. The main point here is you that can't put someone in Double Jeopardy because of the NLR rule. 

Quote

 I think most of the gangs are lowkey pissed off of the inactive turfs being held by admins or the guys who log in for 5 mins to keep the treasury generated, thus making it a unfair for other active gangs and its a big problem in the server, but nobody tried to talk about it loud.

I understand your and other gang's concerns with some of the more inactive factions and turf which is why the new Official Gang system has been announced and why you will actually see more of us on the server moving forward. 

[DISCO]

as far as I know, there are old syndicates, which were thrown away from the gang and havent changed the colours (purple), there are Saints (which I met in drug lab another day) and I knew Ballas was wearing something similar. Somebody of us tracked you down, we had multiple discussions over the radio who were those guys who stole AK and basically somebody (I don't know who exactly, probably the leader of us) followed you all the time in the fair distance to the warehouse and then we made a decision that its ballas turf with a confirmation of Vagos and Cartel people, so we didn't metagamed the last location of yours. Also the truck confused us, because your truck was white and we knew that La Familia has the same or similar one.

[Flucifial]

Hello and thank you for making this report, @Charlie Mangione!

Pending review of the video. Please send me a forum private message containing said video.

Jamal_Debose (Stranger 526_6859), Veron_Treci (Mask 1739_5653), @wildee Ben_Kane (Stranger 6510_9081), and @Johnny_Merazzo Johnny_Merazzo (Stranger 1674_136) will have twenty-four (24) hours to respond with their side of the story! Just cause you were mentioned DOES NOT mean that you broke a rule, we are merely trying to get your side of the story for this report.

I was unable to locate forum profiles for Jamal_Debose (Stranger 526_6859) & Veron_Treci (Mask 1739_5653). If you see these players in-game, please inform them of this report.

-Flucifial

[Big J]

I can barely even remember this situation, but I was there just to RPly solve the issue. Nobudy has broken any rules at that point, later Casso Familia took the Ballas member. After that moment I had no interactions and just went my way, as the video shows.

EDIT: The only thing about them being killed at the drop off, that I saw was them shooting ballas members, I have no idea if the RP was engaged or not. And yes, they had an interaction with the same member about 30 minutes after a shootout if I'm not mistaken.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Johnny_Merazzo
addition

[wildee]

I mean we kidnapped him with what we believed was a KOS reason, 75k> Cash theft. When they stole the ak's I weren't in the shooting and didn't know NLR was broken, I just did my boss'es orders.

[JamalBratan]

Disco explained everything i have nothing to say about this.

[Flucifial]

I am I will now be concluding this report.

Vladimir_Johanson (Stranger 330_5977) will receive a warning from me for checking the F4 menu to see who was online in the Ballas faction and what their names were. This may be the reason for some accidental metagaming in this situation, and why you assumed Reggi was in the Ballas faction. Please understand that this is not a punishment, but rather a note showing you have been talked to about using this method for certain things. 

I have been provided a screenshot which correlates with the video provided by @DISCO. The screenshot proves that Jamal_Debose (Stranger 526_6859) had previously been apart of a situation in which the gang had been taken action against multiple Ballas gang members regarding the same issue that this whole kidnapping situation occurred for. In conclusion, Jamal_Debose violated rule 6.5.3 (New Life Rule) which resulted in a breach in rule 7.7.1 (Hostage Rule) by not only himself but his fellow gang members. They could have had no way of knowing that NLR was triggered beforehand, therefore only Jemal will be receiving a punishment for these breaches.

As for the deathmatching claim, I will not be issuing any punishments as the torture was roleplayed, and the reporting party agreed to everything in /do. The whole situation should've never happened; the punishments below will be a resolution.

All parties involved in this kidnapping situation are to forget any memory of this situation occurring, this roleplay is now considered VOIDED. All parties are also reminded that it is their own responsibility to ensure they have valid reasoning for engaging in hostage situations. 

Punishments being issued:

Vladimir_Johanson (Stranger 330_5977) will receive a warning on his administration record stating he is aware of what he did wrong as far as the minor metagaming.

Jamal_Debose (Stranger 526_6859) will receive a warning for their first offense of breaching New Life Rule.

Jamal_Debose (Stranger 526_6859) will also receive a warning for their first offense of breaching rule 7.7.1. 

Report Accepted/Archived

-Flucifial