Shady Homes(113), Jorel Lorenzen(44), Gaven Montasser(154), Evie Lorenzen(185) | Fear RP

[Josh Thompson]

Player(s) being reported: 113, 44, 154, 185
Date of interaction reported: 19/04/2022
Unix time stamp from HUD: 1650404187

Your characters name: Joshy Thompson
Other player(s) involved: Ace Butoslav, Jayden Shepard

Specific rule(s) broken:

13. Fear Roleplay (FRP)

• Fear RP is showing appropriate care and concern to preserve your character's safety and life.
• If a player's life is in direct danger they must RP adequate fear and comply with demands.
• If an attacker lowers their weapon to type, victims which were under fear RP remain as so.
• A player is not showing proper fear if they run while on foot/bike or in an unpowered vehicle and a weapon is aimed at them at close range, or if they drive into an active shootout more than once without the intent of providing cover or fleeing with it.
• A player still has the option to react if they are in a powered vehicle, if they already have a weapon drawn facing their attacker, or if their attacker's view is obstructed by an object.

How did the player break the rule(s)?
After all three vehicles had stalled, we (PD) rushed in front of them and aimed at lethal firearms at them as we gave clear and firm demands to exit the vehicle with their hands up. This was ignored by all parties. 

Evidence of rule breach: 
https://streamable.com/3e58ow

[Arrta]

PENDING REVIEW
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Hi there! Thank you for submitting this player report.

This report will now be pending review by risk, Gataki, and myself. During this time, we ask that you please refrain from any back-and-forth in this report between anyone involved.

Regards,
Senior Moderator Arrta & Senior Support risk & Gataki

[Arrta]

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• [Notified In-Game] - Shady Homes (113), Jorel Lorenzen (44), Gaven Montasser (154) - Please explain your point of view in regard to the reported situation and provide any evidence that you may have. In addition, we'd like you to answer the following question(s): 
  
    - Why in the reported evidence you did not comply with the demands given and escaped in your vehicles instead?
    - Do you think you showed appropriate care and concern for your characters life?
   
• [Notified In-Game] - Evie Lorenzen (185) - Please explain your point of view in regard to the reported situation and provide any evidence that you may have. In addition, we'd like you to answer the following question(s): 
  
    - Why in the reported evidence you did not comply with the demands given and surrender. 
   
• [Notified In-Game] - Ace Butoslav (75), Jayden Shepard (222) - Please explain your point of view in regard to the reported situation and provide any evidence that you may have. In addition, we'd like you to answer the following question(s): 
  
    - What was your escalation path for immediately going to lethal weapons against a car accident between street racers?
   
• @Josh Thompson - We'd like you to answer the following question(s): 
  
    - What was your escalation path for immediately going to lethal weapons against a car accident between street racers?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Senior Moderator Arrta & Senior Support risk & Gataki

[Josh Thompson]

Joshy Thompson here. Whilst we had some IC information which gave us an increased risk assessment of the individuals in this scenario, it is simply LSPD IC Protocol to approach any vehicle's occupants which has committed a crime of this nature with lethal firearms as primary. It would only be possible to de-escalate to non-lethal firearms once the situation has been secured and re-assessed after the suspect is in custody.

[Lorenzen]

Jorel Lorenzen here, thanks to the staff overseeing this report.

- Why in the reported evidence you did not comply with the demands given and escaped in your vehicles instead?

- Do you think you showed appropriate care and concern for your characters life?

I do not have any footage of the situation, because I was never reached out to concerning the situation. From the reporter’s POV its possible to see that he never really aim his (I do believe it’s called a submachine gun) directly at a person at all, but more into the ground or at the cars. The moment he decides to look at the tree behind the orange car is the moment I drive backwards and leaves the area with the passenger. By him waving his gun all around the place, not holding a steady aim, I believe my character was never put in any danger and therefore I was able to leave the area.

As for ID 75 pointing a taser, suddenly changing to a gun, towards the passenger, I was again not aimed for at all and therefore never put under fear RP.  As a note, I do believe as well an officer pointing a taser at an intact window in front of my passenger (Seen in the reporter’s POV timestamp 0:19)  wouldn’t realistic do any harm.

Lastly, I am really surprised this situation got reported at all due to the time since the occurrence and the lag of effort trying to reach out to the different parties involved.

[ltsChubby]

Hello Gaven Montasser here, first i would like to thank the staff members who are taking their time to deal with this report



- Why in the reported evidence you did not comply with the demands given and escaped in your vehicles instead?

- Do you think you showed appropriate care and concern for your character's life?

As you can see in Josh Thompson’s POV, I (Gaven) was never under direct gunpoint at anytime during that car crash that occurred so i was able to start my paragon that had stalled and drive off without breaking FRP, so there was very low Risk of me dying as

1.  Not one of the 3 officers were pointing their firearms at me, the only time Josh tried to aim at me directly was when  his gun was still being taken out which never got aimed at me.
(Which you can once again see in Josh’s POV at 21 seconds )

2. Josh can be seen in His POV  when he aimed at my orange paragon he aimed at the door.
in saying that in my POV that i did save as i had a feeling this was going to happen,  i had already driven off before Josh Aimed his gun at my door…   I have 300 ping so whatever i do In game is delayed as you will be able to see in my POV
( https://streamable.com/119uwc )


I'd also like to point out that at the given scene, the officers aiming their weapons never kept a full view of any person for longer than 5 seconds without moving his gun to another vehicle. He also shouted demands to people to put their hands up while driving off. There is 3 officers, 1 holding a tazer, 1 holding a pistol and 1 with a micro SMG for racers. There is 3 officers, 5 of us Illegal street racers.

Why would any officer approach vehicles so quickly during a high speed race/chase that ends in a crash, not knowing what they could possibly do as they outnumber them. not taking their own life into consideration.


I don't really have much to say to about this report but it being petty… this happened over 15+ hours ago and to only just now find out about this is sad , NOT ONE SINGLE BIT OF EFFORT WAS MADE TO MESSAGE ANYONE TO SAVE THEIR POV’S. Not By ingame PM’s, not by /OOC chat and nor over discord.  

To add on as well to them pulling lethal weapon’s out at a car crash involving "street racers", i believe this Promotes  very Poor RP on  PD side.

If it was real life police would first try to see if the people in the crash are ok and not dying and once treated and checked out by MD, they then would be charged with the crimes that they have done

Edited April 20, 2022 by ltsChubby
i felt the need to add anther point

[EldritchEve]

Evie Lorenzen here.

Thankyou to the staff for taking the time to deal with this report.

I did not get out of the car when orders were given as I did not react as quickly due to checking my health, and also I was a passenger (the driver drove before I reacted).

I do believe the drastic force was unneeded.

We were all racing in which they knew, as they previously said themselves, that they needed to race a new member of LSPD to get his time for garbage. They asked us to not interfere. I do not believe if a car crew are racing that if an accident should occur the first protocol is to use force. With guns. How is crashing a car, potentially being injured, a reason to be shot? As holding a gun up suggests that. NOT only this but I was a passenger. Why was the taser (which could not have been used due to windows still being intact ), and THEN a gun pointed at ONLY me?   I do believe by our car crashing I should not have a gun at my head? I've witnessed real life crashes, illegal or not and there have never been guns pointed. Once we crashed it took me a minute to process what happened and to make sure I wasn't injured. At this time medical attention would have been appreciated. Not only this but by the time I could have reacted the driver started to drive. I did not have time at this moment to surrender, and I wasn't going to jump. The driver also fled the scene as it is our ethic to the club to invade if a police were to stop us in a paragon. BUT in this scenario I was weak and had to gain mental attention.

Also I was never reached out to or let known about saving my perspective.

 

- Screenshot of window still intact and ONLY at the passenger -

[Mr. Bones]

Shady Homes here,

1. I crashed into the tree, was still in shocked from the indicent > came to my sense heard some officers screaming.
2. They tell me to get out of the car but I was blocked in after moments so couldnt get out my car
3. The moment I drove away nobody was pointing on me.

He didnt ask me to save pov,

Thanks

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr. Bones
added a pic to show nobody was aiming at me when i drove away

[Jayden Shepard]

Jayden Shepard here,

I could be incorrect because the footage doesn’t really show me very clearly, but I am pretty certain I did not actually have a lethal firearm out, and kept to my taser during this whole situation. It is fairly standard protocol for PD to point a mix of lethal and less lethal weapons at suspects during attempts to gain compliance in intense, time sensitive, or high risk situations where there are many unknown variables.

That being said, despite a taser not being very effective in the situation, I maintained only a taser in the situation and did not personally utilize a lethal weapon to the best of my knowledge, as it did not seem necessary for me personally to have one out.

Its possible both escalation or deescalation of the situation would have been warranted, but everything happened too quickly for me to enact any of those options in any form.

If I did have a lethal firearm out it was most likely because I just hit tab to draw a weapon and it was the default that came out, and I would have shortly changed to my taser if the vehicles hadn’t fled as soon as they did.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Jayden Shepard
Additional info

[NotOnlyAce]

Ace Butoslav here.

They were felons and members of a known gang. IC protocol is to use lethal weapons as a way to get them out of car. I dont believe this has anything to do wtih OOC rules.

[Arrta]

REPORT ACCEPTED
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After reviewing this report and evidence attached to it, we've decided to accept this report and issue the punishments to the following player(s):

• Jorel Lorenzen (44) - NonRP - In the provided evidence you can be seen restarting your vehicle and attempting to flee while multiple officers had guns drawn and were at close range.

To explain the reasoning for this decision we take a look at Rule 9. It states “A player is not showing proper fear if they run while on foot/bike or in an unpowered vehicle and a weapon is aimed at them at close range, or if they drive into an active shootout more than once without the intent of providing cover or fleeing with it.” If we look back at the reporting parties video, at 0:22 you restarted your car with 2 officers at close range, one pointing at you and the other at you/your passenger. 

The other two drivers will not be receiving a punishment given at the time they decided to flee themselves, officers were either pointing their guns at a different vehicle or far enough away reasonable coverage could be assumed. With that being said, staff would like to take a moment to remind all involved parties while a covered vehicle may be used to escape a direct threat when it is already powered on, you should remain aware of your surroundings. Had their guns not been pointed at a different vehicle, everyone would have been in breach of FearRP. 

Staff would also like to remind not just the reporting party but everyone involved in this report the importance of politely reminding players in PM to save POV when the intention is to report with the reasoning as to why they will be reported. Staff can only make decisions based on the evidence provided and if a player is unable to show what they saw and why they made the decisions they did, we use what is available to us.

If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file a refund request following the refund request guidelines and format.  

This report will now be locked and archived.

Regards,
Senior Moderator Arrta & Senior Support risk & Gataki