[135] Jay_Valentino, [84] Ty_Shipley- DM

[Dragon_Duterte]

Player(s) being reported: 135, 84
Date of interaction reported: 1/04/2022
Unix time stamp from HUD: https://ibb.co/TtNpQMW

Your character name: Apollo Gambino
Other player(s) involved: Domonic Maxwell, 122

Specific rule(s) broken:

14. Deathmatch (DM)

• Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without a proper IC motive and interaction.
• Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police.
• Players on foot should only be attempted to be hit with a vehicle once with valid motive.
• Vehicles cannot be used as weapons in active shootouts unless where unavoidable.
• Players must be able to explain their reason and provide proof of prior reasoning if requested.
• If a player informs you that your VOIP isn’t working, you must either fix your VOIP using appropriate commands or use text to deliver your demand.

How did the player break the rule(s)?  (300 words maximum)\
First of all thank you for the admin who's taking this report, I wish you good luck everyday.

We were in sealab when this issi went to our guy, believing interrogating/selling drugs and we started chasing him. You can see on the first video that I'm chasing the black issi and after a few moments I stopped where I changed my top clothe resulting to drop the chase(2:52 of first video). I got a back up call that Domonic Maxwell was getting shot so I responded, where I killed the guy who shot him with no sign of Elegy or allies. I feel safe because I know myself I changed my top clothe from the specific chase where they claimed I matched from the description perfectly(https://ibb.co/znzS7LZ which is not true) unless their dead guy told them I changed it(MG). The elegy and cops arrived at the scene after 3-5 minutes. Cops didn't even chase me because they didn't see anything even the elegy especially any gun on me. I left the area and came back after 10-15minutes at the gas station to watch my friend's bike, and the elegy went back on the area too without being hostile around me so I assume everything was good, when I started driving away I'm surprised  I'm getting shot multiple times where i panicked and very late to realize I'm getting damage causing me to get injured without any re escalation or solid proof that I'm the person who killed  their homie. So I told them to save POV and can't show anything because I'm sure they didn't see anything IC'ly and I believe it's not enough reason to shoot/kill me without solid proof or only having a reason of https://ibb.co/znzS7LZ(not perfect because i changed my top clothe and they didn't see what the actual situation)   because ic'ly you can kill random people. I'm sorry if I can't show the whole story with shadowplay because the gap from the 2  situation is too long and I can only record every 5 minutes. That is all thank you, if you need more information feel free to ask. 
 

Evidence of rule breach

FIRST VIDEO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSAkN78eO4

SECOND VIDEO
https://youtu.be/UadKz3xNCI0

Edited April 1, 2022 by Dragon_Duterte
adding more details

[Skiperz]

pending review

[ShawnsBeard]

PENDING RESPONSE
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive a response from the following player(s) to explain their side of the story:

• Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino - Please provide any evidence of the scenario that you may have and answer the following question:
  
  - What made you decide to open fire on the reporting party, ID 138?

• Ty_Shipley (84) @Ty Shipley - Please provide any evidence of the scenario that you may have and answer the following question:
  
  - What made you decide to open fire on the reporting party, ID 138?

• Apollo_Gambino (138) @Dragon_Duterte - Please answer the following question:
  
  - Why did you decide to return and linger in the area where you had just killed a rival gang member?

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Administrator Skiperz & Senior Supports risk & ShawnsBeard

[Dragon_Duterte]

15 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

 

• Apollo_Gambino (138) @Dragon_Duterte - Please answer the following question:
  
  - Why did you decide to return and linger in the area where you had just killed a rival gang member?

 

I came back to watch my friend's bike who survived from the shootout since it's clear already, so no one can pick it or chop it because I believe no one saw what happened to the shootout and no one has an idea who killed him so I keep playing like a innocent civilian. That's why cops didn't chase me or elegy didn't show any hostile action at the first place when they are trying to rescue my ally which is injured . I'm really surprised they shot me when they saw me after 10-15 minutes at the gas station without proper escalation or proper proof of what happened.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Dragon_Duterte

[Jay_Valentino]

20 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino - Please provide any evidence of the scenario that you may have and answer the following question:

- What made you decide to open fire on the reporting party, ID 138?

Hello ID 135 here sorry for the delay I only got home a little while ago.

Thank you to the admins handling this report, unfortunately i don't have any pov of the situation but this is my side of the events. I'd also like to add how Apollo had reported this incident in game to where Agent69 had pulled myself and Ty_shipley aside to get our side of the story which lasted around 20+ mins explaining to him. His decision was to not hand out any punishments.

This all started with my ally Nico being given demands to exit his vehicle in sealabs which Apollo failed to mention in his description, this then resulted in a chase. 
I got involved as my ally Nico called out on freq that he was being chased by 2 individuals on Black bfs, when i received this callout i was on my way to DOC to pick up Ty_ Shipley as he had just finished his jail time, this is where I had seen the two black bfs chasing my ally on the opposite side of the highway which can be seen in apollos pov at 00:13 of the first pov. I was able to see the two bfs and what they were wearing as they passed by me. i saw that one of them was wearing a white shirt, black pants and a light mask, the other was wearing a light t shirt, light pants and wearing a dark head covering (t shirt mask) both on black bfs. The same description was given by Nico the only difference being he said Turban instead of t-shirt mask.

They had chased my ally for over 5 minuets while we were getting equipped, we heard on radio a call out of shorts fired at big dog so we headed there as fast as possible, when we arrived we saw nico dead and his car abandoned, the two black bfs that were chasing him present at the scene, the injured guy wearing the same clothing that was called out and which I had seen chasing my ally, the other individual (apollo) wearing the same light pants and dark t shirt mask I had seen him wearing chasing my ally on the highway. 

From apollos pov there is a 10 minute gap between his pov1 and pov2 which includes evidence of vital escalation.
 
When we pulled upto Bigdog we pretended like we were randoms getting gas, observing the situation to find out as many details as possible. When we arrived we filled up our cars gas and started asking questions to find out what happened, we were talking to apollo at the time (which logs can show as he was using text) for 1-2 minuets where apollo states somewhere during this time or with cops the man on the ground was his friend and he was watching over him, when the injured man (dominic) called out police were coming to which 3 or 4 police arrived at the scene moments later. We were told to not leave the area by the police so we stayed. The injured individual had "multiple GSW's" that md were treating so clearly he was involved in the shootout with our ally. His friend on the black bf who stuck by the entire time left when the police came, who left on the black bf. When it was safe to leave we left and decided to try and intercept them at md, when getting near North store we realised we went to the wrong md so we headed back thinking there wasn't much we could do. When approaching big dog the same individual who was at the scene before wearing the same mask, pants and on the black bf was still present at the scene clearly keeping watch over his friends bike, by himself.

To get finalisation it was him, I hopped out the elegy and  went upto nicos car, visibly unlocked it and got in, his response was to turn around and drive away knowing full well we knew it was him who participated in the shootout against our ally.  We avenged our fallen ally and hastily left the area.
I'd also like to add I'm unsure as to why Apollo decided to stop evading from us when we started shooting and decided stop and let us kill him when he could have easily got away from us and lost nothing from the situation. Instead he let us kill him and reported in game to to which the admin didn't give any punishments.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them.

[Ty Shipley]

ID 84 here, cheers for the staff taking this report

This incident was dealt with in game by agent69 in which he handed no punishments out, after TPing everyone and getting their perspective. 

I do not have recorded footage, but I will do my best to explain my point of view. 

 

So I had just finished serving my DOC sentence for felony evading, Jay Valentino picked me up. Before I got picked up, our ally Nico has been attempted to be placed under gunpoint in an attempted robbery up North, and is now being chased. This chase lasts 5 minutes +, and our ally being chased says over VOIP they are both on black BF400s and one is wearing a turban. We did not know this was Royals as they were out of colours. This identification is then solidified by Jay's visual confirmation as he passes the chase, which he sees both full appearances of the people on BF400s, who Nico confirmed were the ones to try and rob him. I am picked up, and Jay relays this to me. We immediately headed towards Nico's last callout “shots at big dog” “im getting shot” with guns, which was in the area of the gas station near Utool.

We arrive, and to no surprise we see our allies body 15 meters away, an injured man on the side of the gas station and 2 black BF400S around. Apollo is next to the injured man on his BF400, wearing a black turban, matching both the description given by Nico and the physical appearance seen by Jay. This is the part in Apollo's POV that is missing; the end unix stamp of the video is 1648776722, and the beginning of the second video's unix stamp is 1648777287, in which there is a significant amount of time and events missing, it's almost 10 minutes, as well as the footage being edited. I'd like to request Apollo to show this because this is where a lot of the context is missing.

During this time, we go up to them, in which Apollo is saying using text - which logs can prove - calling the injured individual his "friend" numerous times and the injured man saying not to worry because "PD are coming." A short time passes, PD/MD comes, in which Apollo's injured ally is treated for multiple GSW's (Gunshot-Shot-Wounds)  - which again logs prove. We are demanded to remain in the area by PD, so we do. Whilst he is being treated we are but a few meters away. The SD/PD members there can vouch for this if they can be identified (1 being Victoria Mcdonald, a couple of SD who always ride together, one being Haswell) PD + MD leave, we make our way to MD and come back, and to no surprise to us, Apollo is still at the scene. 

This is when we confront him, where Apollo remains in the area, not refueling, but waiting in close proximity to his allies bike and our dead ally’s black issi wearing the same clothes on the same bike. Jay sees Nico's vehicle and sees this as an opportunity to gain even more information to give us even more confirmation on what we have, so he decides to unlock it, and get in our dead ally's vehicle and drive up to Apollo, in which Apollo's reaction is to reverse and try to leave the area. This is when we clearly have enough IC evidence to know it was him so we avenge our ally using a suppressed .50 and leave the area swiftly to avoid any further police confrontation. 

I Hope this has helped

Ty Shipley

[Dragon_Duterte]

5 hours ago, Ty Shipley said:

 

 

So I had just finished serving my DOC sentence for felony evading, Jay Valentino picked me up. Before I got picked up, our ally Nico has been attempted to be placed under gunpoint in an attempted robbery up North, and is now being chased. This chase lasts 5 minutes +, and our ally being chased says over VOIP they are both on black BF400s and one is wearing a turban. We did not know this was Royals as they were out of colours. This identification is then solidified by Jay's visual confirmation as he passes the chase, which he sees both full appearances of the people on BF400s, who Nico confirmed were the ones to try and rob him. I am picked up, and Jay relays this to me. We immediately headed towards Nico's last callout “shots at big dog” “im getting shot” with guns, which was in the area of the gas station near Utool.

 

How would Nico confirmed if he died already? Second, you guys are late from the situation and didn't see any threat/gun on me because if you really see me shooting your ally, you guys will pull up immediately before cops shows up and no more talking but you didn't for the reason of not being sure who killed your guy . You only depend from the details about a guy with turban mask and bf400 which a lot of people are using it. I also want to point out all the explanations you got are only speculations without any solid proof supporting them IC'ly for you two to shoot me without proper escalation/re-escalation/demands . 



I'm not posting anymore, only if admin ask me to explain something. Once again, thank you for the admin who's handling this report and have a nice day everyone.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Dragon_Duterte

[Ty Shipley]

Hello Dragon_Duterte, don't misinterpret my replies and try and manipulate it, leave it to the staff to ask questions. It's not speculation, because that's what happened. Because your footage is trimmed however, this part is obviously missed out to make it look like there was no other context. Similar to yourself, I will not be going back and forth, but will be responding to any further questions if necessary. 

[ShawnsBeard]

PENDING FURTHER RESPONSES
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive further responses from the following player(s) to explain their sides of the scenario and provide any further evidence:

• Nico_Bridges (Notified In Game) - If applicable, please provide any evidence of the scenario that you may have of the chase, shootout and interactions with Apollo_Gambino & Domonic_Maxwell.

• Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino & Ty_Shipley (84) @Ty Shipley  - Please answer the following question:  
  - With the given circumstances of the reported roleplay scenario, did you attempt to engage in any roleplay or make any further investigative attempts to prove the reporting party was involved in killing your ally before opening fire yourselves?

• Apollo_Gambino (138) @Dragon_Duterte - If you have any further/extended footage of the reported scenario, please provide it.

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Administrator Skiperz & Senior Supports risk & ShawnsBeard

[Dragon_Duterte]

6 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

 

• Apollo_Gambino (138) @Dragon_Duterte - If you have any further/extended footage of the reported scenario, please provide it.

 

I don't have any extended footage because my shadowplay was set to record only 5 minutes and the gap between each situation was very long.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Dragon_Duterte

[neeko]

8 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

PENDING FURTHER RESPONSES
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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided that this report cannot be concluded at this time. We would like to receive further responses from the following player(s) to explain their sides of the scenario and provide any further evidence:

• Nico_Bridges (Notified In Game) - If applicable, please provide any evidence of the scenario that you may have of the chase, shootout and interactions with Apollo_Gambino & Domonic_Maxwell.

• Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino & Ty_Shipley (84) @Ty Shipley  - Please answer the following question:  
  - With the given circumstances of the reported roleplay scenario, did you attempt to engage in any roleplay or make any further investigative attempts to prove the reporting party was involved in killing your ally before opening fire yourselves?

• Apollo_Gambino (138) @Dragon_Duterte - If you have any further/extended footage of the reported scenario, please provide it.

If the requested player(s) do not respond within 24 hours, this report will be concluded based on the evidence that has already been provided, to the best of our ability. 

Regards,
Administrator Skiperz & Senior Supports risk & ShawnsBeard

Hello,  as stated above this scenario took place for a long duration of time in which in my eyes it was pretty straight forward scenario with no rulebreaks or even anything that could be misconstrued as a rulebreak so I never thought nor was told to save pov.   

I can however add that what the defending parties in this appeal (ty and jay) are saying is true.  I was chased around the city for a long duration of time, including even passing jay on the highway and I remember him saying "Oh wow they're wheelie-ing behind you" after getting a close look at their exact description and vehicle.   I had no doubt that they knew who and what was chasing me given my constant and persistent callouts for 10+ mins chase.  I was chased from Sea lab, to sandy, to the casino, back up around U tool and ending at the gas station.   They would have known 100% that the man who killed me persisted in the area solo and in this guys POV I can clearly see that they even feared allies being in the area calling us out already as "bsb" and signifying that they were in the area.   Why persist by yourself as the killer who had been seen chasing me down?   

I have no doubts that jay and ty both acted within 100% certainty that the killer was still left at the scene.   

[Skiperz]

@Nick_bridges Do you have footage or any evidence as they claimed? Straight Yes or no question.

[Jay_Valentino]

21 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino & Ty_Shipley (84) @Ty Shipley  - Please answer the following question:  
- With the given circumstances of the reported roleplay scenario, did you attempt to engage in any roleplay or make any further investigative attempts to prove the reporting party was involved in killing your ally before opening fire yourselves?

So as stated in my previous reply when we arrived at the scene we had stuck in the area to find out more information which will be quoted below.

On 4/2/2022 at 2:45 AM, Jay_Valentino said:

When we pulled upto Bigdog we pretended like we were randoms getting gas, observing the situation to find out as many details as possible. When we arrived we filled up our cars gas and started asking questions to find out what happened, we were talking to apollo at the time (which logs can show as he was using text) for 1-2 minuets where apollo states somewhere during this time or with cops the man on the ground was his friend and he was watching over him, when the injured man (dominic) called out police were coming to which 3 or 4 police arrived at the scene moments later. We were told to not leave the area by the police so we stayed. The injured individual had "multiple GSW's" that md were treating so clearly he was involved in the shootout with our ally. His friend on the black bf who stuck by the entire time left when the police came, who left on the black bf. When it was safe to leave we left and decided to try and intercept them at md, when getting near North store we realised we went to the wrong md so we headed back thinking there wasn't much we could do. When approaching big dog the same individual who was at the scene before wearing the same mask, pants and on the black bf was still present at the scene clearly keeping watch over his friends bike, by himself.

When we first pulled up and had the interactions with the individual on the bike it was clear he was the guy we were looking for as he matched the description given by Nico and the visual confirmation I got when passing him on the highway, along with the fact he was on a black bf that was chasing Nico and he was right next to the injured man on the floor talking to him, engaging in conversation. Some parts of the conversation was done over text between dominic and apollo which logs will show, me and ty overheard the conversation. The reported party knows that myself and Ty_Shipley had interacted with him at bigdog Gas station, which is in the missing 10 minutes of pov that has not been supplied.
(I'd like to emphasise that, by this point in time, Apollo had already changed his top clothing apparel into a light yellow flannel, he however was still wearing the same pants and mask from the chase, riding the same bf400. Just because you've changed one item of clothing it doesn't mean your are now invisible and exempt from being identified by others).

(It's blatantly obvious that from Apollos povs his save points don't make any sense, in his first pov he saves his pov while his character is driving the bike and simultaneously turning his bike all at the same time, this clearly shows the pov was edited and not just saved. Again with his second pov he saves his pov after he stops his bike after he gets shot, then half a second after the "you have been injured" screen pops up his pov is instantly saved before his character even hits the ground. I only bring this up as its clear the pov is edited and may have been overlooked).

Below is a picture 13 seconds into Apollos first pov, showing me see them chasing my ally, when i was on my way to pick up Ty from DOC

 

From the beginning the reporting party states in his own words “The elegy and cops arrived at the scene after 3-5 minutes” knowing that both Ty and Myself arrived approximately a minute or two prior to the cops and MD arriving and completely leaving that detail out of his report. 
At that point, I had already gained confirmation of the reporting party to be second person involved in giving demands and following my ally after having seen him following my ally myself passing by on Senora Freeway and by his own self admission on scene. We were ready to deal with the injured man on the ground as he was clearly involved in the shooting of our ally and see how the guy on the bf400 watching over him (apollo) reacted. However, we were unable to do so as his friend (Dominic) mentioned PD was on their way and soon thereafter law enforcement and MD simultaneously arrived on scene preventing us from taking action at that time. 

 

5. Disrupting Server Operations and Knowledge of Rule Breaches

• Players must report cases of ban evasion, falsified forum reports, discussions/jokes about cyber-attacks and other rule breaches. An attempt to hide such information is punishable.

The reporting party knowing and wilfully submitted this report intentionally leaving out essential elements of the escalation and scenario with his interaction with both himself, myself, and Ty from his description of events. This makes him guilty of **falsifying this report** or portion thereof for his own personal gain in the game. 

After looking over the footage from the Povs provided it can also be seen that in the faction chat there is clear metagaming going between the members, such as asking questions via faction chat regarding ongoing ic situations.

Again via the faction chat they are asking questions such as "and it was BSB?" I'm not sure why this is a important factor nor why it was asked in faction chat.
 

There was a surplus of information that indicated with confidence and to no doubt that this man actively participated in the shooting of our ally; logs, the presence of Victoria McJohnson, Haswell, Kopi Krozen and others, could all back this up and should be utilised where the near 10 minutes of missing context and rp can be elaborated on with detail. Therefore, I do not feel there was any further investigation needed.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Jay_Valentino
Extra details

[Ty Shipley]

23 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

 

• Jay_Valentino (135) @Jay_Valentino & Ty_Shipley (84) @Ty Shipley  - Please answer the following question:  
  - With the given circumstances of the reported roleplay scenario, did you attempt to engage in any roleplay or make any further investigative attempts to prove the reporting party was involved in killing your ally before opening fire yourselves?

In terms of additional roleplay, after reviewing the reporting parties POV it can clearly be seen that I tried VOIPing but mid sentence the voice chat was glitched. As you can see, after I say "alright lad," the ID 84 on the right in green is visible. I say "You think you can shoot us?" … "think you can shoot us?" to which from my perspective it was met with silence. This was at 4:10 of the video. 

You can see as he is attempting to flee he lets himself consciously get shot, I can't decide if he is baiting being shot and reporting, or just letting his character die. His footage is so obviously edited, the cuts make 0 sense, hitting record whilst using WASD and utilizing the mouse driving a bike at the end of 1st footage, hitting record whilst simultaneously dying at 4:59 of the second footage. The main context has just been left out by Apollo purposefully, through lack of footage and description; even after editing his post numerous times.

Like what was said by Jay; the context would be supported by logs and the perspective from the emergency response members of SD, PD, MD that have been identified show the legitimacy leading to this avengement of our ally through the killing of Apollo. I would like to add I never said Nico had footage. I did ask Nico, whilst speaking to agent69, if he had footage but he didn't have it available. 

[neeko]

22 hours ago, Skiperz said:

@Nick_bridges Do you have footage or any evidence as they claimed? Straight Yes or no question.

no

[Skiperz]

PLAYER REPORT DENIED

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After reviewing this report and the evidence attached to it, we have decided to deny this report for the following reason(s):

Ultimately, there was not enough evidence to accept this report despite staff believing this most likely was a DM. There is a gap of approximately ten minutes between the footages, a time period in which vital information is missing- whether or not Dominic or Apollo said something while medics and police were on scene to positively identify Apollo's involvement in the earlier situation. To issue a DM punishment without all of the evidence would be unfair to all parties involved. 

While we are denying this report, staff would like to take a moment to ensure all parties understand a few important points of note that were brought up during the course of the investigation. 

- Footage of escalation should, when at all possible, be provided in full. It should remain unedited and show the duration of the entire incident to provide staff all the necessary information needed to accurately deem whether or not a rule break has occurred. We would also like to inform the reported parties the importance of it being your responsibility to have footage available at any point when asked by staff to prove your character had DM rights, regardless of whether or not you feel you were breaking the rules. 

- More roleplay could have- and should have- occurred to positively identify the reporting party. A black BF and a t-shirt mask with jeans and tennis shoes are hardly uncommon in the city of Los Santos and it was entirely possible there was a case of misidentification. In the future, staff highly encourages taking more steps via roleplay to positively identify a potential enemy before engaging in a violent act to make sure you are not in the position in the future. 

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If you have received a punishment that you disagree with, feel free to file a punishment appeal following the punishment appeal guidelines and format. If the reporting party suffered a loss greater than $25,000 in value, feel free to file a refund request following the refund request guidelines and format.

Regards,
Senior Support risk
Senior Support ShawnsBeard
Administrator Skiperz